Tez Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I am kind of in the middle on this topic. I agree that a quality sound is more important than pure volume, and I also tend to think that a blended and balanced sound will actually seem louder. On the other hand, I do believe a drum and bugle corps is a different kind of ensemble from any other, and brass players must play with a more extended upper dynamic range (because of reasons already mentioned). If this causes the 'characteristic' sound to be a little different, I think that is okay. Having said this, I don't see how drum corps brass playing is really hurting the quality of musicians in our country. The way I see it, a drum corps member will do one of three things with their life as far as music goes after their drum corps experience. 1.Career not in music - In this case drum corps was probably the peak of their musical career, which is totally fine. 2.Career teaching music (high school level or lower) - Do you really think teaching methods learned in drum corps will not be great for teaching younger musicians? 3.Professional musician / teaching music college age and up - While I will admit that habits formed in drum corps may not be well suited for playing in a professional orchestra/wind band/jazz ensemble etc... these habits would be easily broken by the type of person that would actually be a professional musician. With the 4+ hours a day of practice required to be a true professional the past drum corps experience would serve more as 'inspiration' and 'motivation' than the placed they developed the techniques to play their instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I am kind of in the middle on this topic. I agree that a quality sound is more important than pure volume, and I also tend to think that a blended and balanced sound will actually seem louder. On the other hand, I do believe a drum and bugle corps is a different kind of ensemble from any other, and brass players must play with a more extended upper dynamic range (because of reasons already mentioned). If this causes the 'characteristic' sound to be a little different, I think that is okay.Having said this, I don't see how drum corps brass playing is really hurting the quality of musicians in our country. The way I see it, a drum corps member will do one of three things with their life as far as music goes after their drum corps experience. 1.Career not in music - In this case drum corps was probably the peak of their musical career, which is totally fine. 2.Career teaching music (high school level or lower) - Do you really think teaching methods learned in drum corps will not be great for teaching younger musicians? 3.Professional musician / teaching music college age and up - While I will admit that habits formed in drum corps may not be well suited for playing in a professional orchestra/wind band/jazz ensemble etc... these habits would be easily broken by the type of person that would actually be a professional musician. With the 4+ hours a day of practice required to be a true professional the past drum corps experience would serve more as 'inspiration' and 'motivation' than the placed they developed the techniques to play their instrument. Right one. Bonus points for actually thinking ahead to the real world aftereffects of said brass technique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdCadet07 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 ...but I know what I like (red meat AND candy bars, for the record...) and this,apparently, we call bacon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 and this,apparently, we call bacon... mmm....bacon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) A friend of mine in college marched in a Finalist corps for 5 years. He played lead there and he played lead trumpet in the jazz band with me. When he told me he was taking a year off, I asked him how he hoped to maintain his level of proficiency on his horn over the summer without marching. He replied that doing drum corps made him a worse player every summer and he had to work hard to become good again in the fall. Now, he wasn't a music major, but still a very talented player that felt like drum corps diminished his ability over the summer. Don't get me wrong, he was by no means a bad player after marching a season of corps, he would come back with chops of steel and lungs to match. But his playing suffered in the areas of tone, range and technical playing because those things just weren't the focus of where he marched. The focus was to play LOUD and that was the way it was. It worked for them, but it didn't work for him as a player. Obviously this wasn't enough to make him not want to march there, but hearing stories of having to ice down your chops every night did not sound like a lot of fun to me. Just one person's experience that he shared with me. Edited June 25, 2008 by Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 A friend of mine in college marched in a Finalist corps for 5 years. He played lead there and he played lead trumpet in the jazz band with me. When he told me he was taking a year off, I asked him how he hoped to maintain his level of proficiency on his horn over the summer without marching. He replied that doing drum corps made him a worse player every summer and he had to work hard to become good again in the fall. Now, he wasn't a music major, but still a very talented player that felt like drum corps diminished his ability over the summer. Don't get me wrong, he was by no means a bad player after marching a season of corps, he would come back with chops of steel and lungs to match. But his playing suffered in the areas of tone, range and technical playing because those things just weren't the focus of where he marched. The focus was to play LOUD and that was the way it was. It worked for them, but it didn't work for him as a player. Obviously this wasn't enough to make him not want to march there, but hearing stories of having to ice down your chops every night did not sound like a lot of fun to me. Just one person's experience that he shared with me. I can relate, but like you said, he came back better in some ways and worse in others. A decent player can 'reverse the damage' within a few weeks of being back in the practice room. I had it even tougher - I came straight from drum corps to college marching band- then I had to get ready for auditions and ensembles and such... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn craig Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I am kind of in the middle on this topic. I agree that a quality sound is more important than pure volume, and I also tend to think that a blended and balanced sound will actually seem louder. On the other hand, I do believe a drum and bugle corps is a different kind of ensemble from any other, and brass players must play with a more extended upper dynamic range (because of reasons already mentioned). If this causes the 'characteristic' sound to be a little different, I think that is okay.Having said this, I don't see how drum corps brass playing is really hurting the quality of musicians in our country. The way I see it, a drum corps member will do one of three things with their life as far as music goes after their drum corps experience. 1.Career not in music - In this case drum corps was probably the peak of their musical career, which is totally fine. 2.Career teaching music (high school level or lower) - Do you really think teaching methods learned in drum corps will not be great for teaching younger musicians? 3.Professional musician / teaching music college age and up - While I will admit that habits formed in drum corps may not be well suited for playing in a professional orchestra/wind band/jazz ensemble etc... these habits would be easily broken by the type of person that would actually be a professional musician. With the 4+ hours a day of practice required to be a true professional the past drum corps experience would serve more as 'inspiration' and 'motivation' than the placed they developed the techniques to play their instrument. I agree. As for those who become professional musicians: While maintaining controll and good overall sound, they must adjust to a lot of conditions and situations. I think drum corps really helps in a big way with that aspect of performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaners Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 sorry to those who are sick of the drum corp PREFERENCE of sound argument... i knew that posting this thread would probably open that can of worms yet again.... in a brief response, it takes amazing educators to bring drum corps to the levels they are at, and while i have not interviewed them all personally, i think it is safe to assume that they are fully aware that drum corps and the loud playing requires is completely different qualities then that required to play in wind, orchestral, or any other type of ensemble. further, i can name dozens of professional orchestras whos brass players play with more edge then i have EVER heard in any drum corp from the past 30 years. notably, jeff reynolds (bass trombone) and the rest of the low brass section of the Los angeles philharmonic (pre-2005). those guys played at loud volumes with unbelievable amounts of edge, raspy tone, metal shredding, what ever you want to call it.... upon asking jeff reynolds myself about how they get away with that tone quality, he replied "its what the conductor wants to hear, its what the audience wants to hear." so there it is again, an audience preferring a certain sound to be satisfied. and this time, it isnt drumcorp, it isnt high school marching band, it isnt even a rock concert, its the principle bass trombonist for 30+ years of the los angeles philharmonic. in response to the comments of wynton's playing and how he can change his characteristic tone depending on what group he is with, lets take a look at that for a moment. i have in front of me recordings of wynton marsalis performing in a jazz quartet, playing in a 'jazz style'. and i also have a recording of him playing classical solos by composers such as paganini and rimsky-korsokov, backed by the vienna philharmonic. i kid you not, it sounds like the exact same player, but with a different ensemble. in both performances he is flying all over the range of the instrument at a fast pace, in both he is taking melodic & musical phrases deligently, and in both he is playing with great dynamic contrast. but flight of the bumble bee wynton sounds just like 'quick ate' improve wynton... and i agree with euphonitone, you can not compare drumcorp performers with professional musicians who have been playing for their entire lives! further, many older (and younger) drum corp performers know what they are getting into! ill take myself for example, i am a trombone performance graduate in southern california. i knew that taking the summer off from practicing would not only lose me hours of personal practice time, but actually take me steps back because my playing in drumcorp was no where close to a 'balanced diet' of brass playing. did it stop me? NO. in conclusion, some statements in this thread are valid, while others seem to be pulled out of somewhere dark. but in any case, this is again just a preference to what you want to hear in drum corps. and those who do not wish to hear loud playing which creates bad tone quality poor intonation have every right to want toned down volume.. just as much as everyone else has the right to not give a @#$% and prefer to get their faces blown off. i prefer the later, and honestly, with a majority of corps lately, the poor tone quality and intonation is not even that bad, to me it is easily overcome by focusing on the production in front of me, instead of letting all the hard work of the performers be ruined by a few blats or sharp thirds... OOOK BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE... so far, it seems that cadets, phantom, and scv are the big boys as far as volume goes. are cadets (or any other corp) the same volume or louder then cadets '07? to those that have been to shows so far, do corps in general seem to be louder then previous years? i am glad the trend is going back to 'blow my face off' drum corps (again just a preference). p.s. who ever made that comment on the cavies not 'getting the memo' about being able to play loud and still be competitive made my laugh really hard for a long time, points for you! ~shaners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I don't understand a lot of the commentary in this thread. The OP asked which corps was the loudest this year, not who had the "best" (whatever that means) brass sound or approach to brass sound. One of the cool things about drum corps is that you get to hear a variety of approaches. I like loud as long as it's also in tune...the center of balance matters little to me. I do like dynamic contrast, but usually, if a corps plays loud and in tune, they also play soft and in tune enough in a show to please me. If it's out of tune, it just sounds bad no matter where the center of balance is and no matter how loud the hornline is playing. That's just me, though. I like threads like this. Start a thread on who has the most symphonic sounding hornline this year, and I'll enjoy reading that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad To Be Hear Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Mmmm. This whole discussion is still apples and oranges: Orchestra = Orchestra Symphonic Band = Symphonic Band Jazz Ensemble = Jazz Ensemble Marching Band = Marching Band Drum Corps = Drum Corps I don't know about you guys -- but I marched drum corps for a different, and unique, playing experience... (To answer the original poster: I haven't been to a show yet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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