Best on-field murder in Phantom's show?

[Kieren]

Dude,

It's drum corps to you and me. People outside drum corps don't understand. This make drum corps look bad and low class from the outside. Did your instructors ever tell you about how to protect the drum corp image (public relations), i.e. how to act with the people out in the public? If you ever did this in some of the corps I marched with, you would have been out on your butt very quickly.

We could apply this logic to so many things...

"Dude, it's a novel to you and me. People outside of literature don't understand."

"Dude, it's a broadway musical to you and me. People outside of literature don't understand."

"Dude, it's a movie to you and me. People outside of film don't understand."

Which of course, is about as ridiculous as your puffed chest bleating. I mean....if you really stop to think about what you are saying, you'd realize how stupid you sound when you basically assume that any human being watching a show is going to walk away from it with a low opinion of the entire activity.

Honestly, you are way too sensitive to watch drum corps...I bet you don't have a television in your house in order to protect your little ones, eh? That way they can grow up all nice and righteous? Then of course, the first time something "outside the norm" happens, they won't have a clue what to do because daddy was too busy shielding them and protecting them from all that big bad simulated stuff on TV/Movies/Video games, etc.

Frankly, I am surprised you can even stomach to visit DCP.

Or the grocery store.

[Kieren]

Neither one of them would have allowed corps members to speak to the public like this. Hello! The internet is about as public as you can get. Certainly not current marching members. And I'd like to hope former members would have enough class (which they learned from drum corps) to not make comments like this in public and be stupid enough to put what corps they marched in, in their signature in the post. I counted at least 10 former marching members (who put it in their signature) and one guy whose little brother died last year, who were talking about how "fun" it is to have a graphic throat slashing and other murders in a drum corps show. Real classy.

I was hoping drum corps would have taught you enough class to not try to force your (minority) opinion unto the populace of a forum, but we are both apparently destined to be disappointed.

Honestly man....you don't even understand that you are essentially trying to change the opinions of grown men and women as if they were nothing but children.

You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but who the HADES gave YOU the right to dictate to us what we should or should not like? Talk about arrogant blathering! You sir did NOT learn the right lessons from being in a drum corps, and that is a shame. I learned to think for myself, I learned to not make mountains out of molehills, I learned to keep an open mind, and I certainly learned how to tell the difference between pageantry and reality.

I am really, really sorry that you did not, and the more you argue, the more I become convinced you are nothing but a troll.

[Kieren]

Sure, for a music major from Texas. Not for the average drum corps fan and certainly not for non drum corps people at a show. They say to themselves, "why did they just cut that girl's throat. i paid $25 to see that? I can see that on the local L.A. news every night or in my neighborhood for free. I came to see the band prance around in their fancy hats with the cheerleaders in back. This thing is really screwed up. I not going to pay to see this again. And I'm certainly not going to let my kids do this"

Please remember everyone doesn't think like a college boy. You live in a utopia. Everyone else doesn't.

Yeah. Every time I go to a drum corps show, I see all those uneducated low-income ghetto dwellers just itching to see something they can learn from.

Your opinion of the average drum corps show-goer is fairly low. Your opinion of the non-drum corps people seems to be even lower. My girlfriend is not a music major, and she never marched drum corps...we watched the live broadcast and she did not have to be told what the show was about.

I'd rather live in my utopia than in your fantasy world of rainbows and kittens and tulips.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Kieren

[RickCogley]

Shocking yes, but not at all out of character for most any art, music, or literature, unless all you've ever seen is Norman Rockwell.

Some of the most incredible and moving art is that which shows violence. Check Picasso's Guernica - think he was celebrating violence in that? No way; it was a catharsis. Watch any opera or read any Shakespeare lately, or even read the Holy Bible? Chock full of sex, rape, murder, suicide, incest, and you could make the same argument that various famous works are "glorifying" the same.

True, the performers are generally at the cusp of adulthood and it is a sensitive time, but I believe this Regiment show is portraying these horrors in an effective and powerful way to support what we know of the story of Spartacus, and is certainly not celebrating them per se. I believe that the members are mature enough to figure things out for themselves, and that we should not second-guess that. We would be doing them a severe injustice by protecting them too much.

Granted, what's a little sad to me, is certain peoples' reactions that a portrayal of murder is "cool" or "sweet". While those sorts of reactions make me uncomfortable because this is not a sweet story at all, as for inciting people to become serial killers, come on - that's just horse-puckey. Heavens, I even had to read Shakespeare in high school and college! How did I ever survive?

[dandanthebandplayinman]

There were at least 20 to 30,000 non drum corps at pasadena. That's about 10 years worth of good drum corps publicity for the entire state, and was blown in about 10 seconds.

Most people can see the difference between wearing a pink shirt and getting your head cut off. One is worse than the other.

1) Youre telling me that there was more that 20,000 in attendance?

2) Your telling me that the majority of the crowd was non-drumcorps people? If not then there would need to be atleast 40,000 there. and as many as 60,000?

WOW

I can see the head line " DCI sets record audiance for early season regional"

3)How do you propose they tell the story of spartucus without any one dying? would you prefer they get on the PA and just say "and then she was dead" and she falls over with a red streamer or two?

4) youre making LOTS of assumtions, Like the majority of the audience was uneducated, that the majority of the audience precived(s) that as "sweet" and/or "cool" and will go try it on someone later, that the design staff was doing this for shock value, and nothing else, that 1-3 moments is going to ruin the perspective of 4 hours of exposure, That the average audience member doesnt use(knowingly or not) the willing suspension of disbelif. just for a few.

If the story was about ceasar how do you suppose they portray his death? he was knifed by brutus.

My opinion is that you're taking it out of context and well out of proportion. That the show is well designed, well executed and very effective.

Edited July 7, 2008 by dandanthebandplayinman

[Kieren]

27Socal offends me. I think that we should ban 27Socal because his posts incite me to violence (it's true...after reading his posts, I am left with the overwhelming urge to strangle tree-hugging hippies). I can't believe that DCP would allow someone like 27Socal to post, after all, young (open-minded teens are reading this and being influenced by him. They are likely to go out and start posting crazy because they read his posts. They are likely to go out and start criticizing artistic homicide in the works of Shakespeare, in the films of Cecil B. Demille, in the musicals of Andrew Lloyd Weber, in the plays of Ibsen and Shaw....

Help! Won't someone PLEASE stop and think of the CHILDREN!???

(P.S. Just in case he doesn't get it, since he appears pretty dense, this is all a joke)

[The Other Mike]

Yeah. Every time I go to a drum corps show, I see all those uneducated low-income ghetto dwellers just itching to see something they can learn from.

I'd rather live in my utopia than in your fantasy world of rainbows and kittens and tulips.

Two GREAT one liners in one post ?

Please, each one is worthy of a post all their own.

[RickCogley]

27Socal offends me. I think that we should ban 27Socal because his posts incite me to violence (it's true...after reading his posts, I am left with the overwhelming urge to strangle tree-hugging hippies). I can't believe that DCP would allow someone like 27Socal to post, after all, young (open-minded teens are reading this and being influenced by him. They are likely to go out and start posting crazy because they read his posts. They are likely to go out and start criticizing artistic homicide in the works of Shakespeare, in the films of Cecil B. Demille, in the musicals of Andrew Lloyd Weber, in the plays of Ibsen and Shaw....

Help! Won't someone PLEASE stop and think of the CHILDREN!???

(P.S. Just in case he doesn't get it, since he appears pretty dense, this is all a joke)

Heh. I like the way you said it better. :-)

[BariEuph]

first of all, i'm sorry for feeding this troll. but, there were a few things i noticed as odd in his posts and no one had pointed them out yet. plus, it's my birthday. i'll do what i want (the tongue infers a JOKE. aaahaha. get it?)

Or, if you think murder is a joke or cool, I wouldn't advise you to say it among the general public, especially when wearing a drum corps jacket.

i hope no one here thinks MURDER is cool.... rather that the theatrics portrayed by PR and the incredible acting by the DM and the young lady were great, very cool, and effective.

If you ever did this in some of the corps I marched with, you would have been out on your butt very quickly.

uhh.... did what? followed the staff's instructions? performed a show that the staff designed, wrote, and taught?

yeah i can totally see how that would get you kicked out.

also, if a member didn't like how the show was being done, they had time to leave. (i know of at least one member who went from PR to academy. NOTE: i have no knowledge of the reason WHY, and am NOT saying it was because of this scene in the show. just saying i know of one who left mid-season.)

DESIGNED FOR CHEAP SHOCK VALUE. (i.e. the "gasps" at every show). Nothing artistic about it (which could be argued for the other 2 murders in the same show). I felt sick to my stomach the first time I saw it. Maybe we should send a copy of the video to the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, and see if they think it's "fun" and "cool".

remember that category on the score sheets called "general effect"? maybe that's what they were going for????

send nicole and ron a video of theater. it'd be an accurate comparison.

That's the sad thing about this issue. They don't need it. This is one superb drum corps underneath this fluff. The audience is screaming at the end of the show because of the fantastic drum line, horn line and colorguard. They are not screaming because they just saw someone's throat cut. I could care less about the story. They're mainly gimmicks. I go to a drum corps show to see drum lines, horn lines and colorguards. If people want to see graphic violence they can go to a slasher movie (I have never seen one and never will. Maybe it's strange, but I don't enjoy being disgusted).

so what you're saying yourself then is that it doesn't matter in the end, because what the audience noticed more and REMEMBERED was the amazing musicianship and dancing?

hold on. let me take a minute to laugh at the irony here.

and cadets didn't need narration last year/this year, and crown didn't NEED a rose necklace for the winning horse, and and and -- the point is, it doesn't matter what YOU think they did or didn't need. they have show designers for a reason. last time i checked, you weren't on staff with PR.

Granted, what's a little sad to me, is certain peoples' reactions that a portrayal of murder is "cool" or "sweet". While those sorts of reactions make me uncomfortable because this is not a sweet story at all, as for inciting people to become serial killers, come on - that's just horse-puckey. Heavens, I even had to read Shakespeare in high school and college! How did I ever survive?

as someone who's reply included the word "sweet" i want to clarify. (i started to earlier in this reply) i don't think murder is sweet or cool. i think excellent acting and PR's portrayal of history was excellent, very cool, and "sweet." the effect garnered by the scene (which i'm willing to lay money on is what PR was going for - effect) was indeed very sweet.

[PhanFan]

I came to see the band prance around in their fancy hats with the cheerleaders in back.

If I see any prancing or cheerleaders, I will stop watching Drum Corps.

I see Phantom's show as very artistic and well done. They are telling a classic story. I have no problem watching it or watching something like Romeo and Juliet or West Side Story or Monty Python when someone gets killed by a cow falling on them.

I don't watch slasher movies or play violent video games because I personally do not find it entertaining, but my husband and 2 grown children have and are entertained by them. They have never been encited to violence because of them.

I guess the 90 to 99% of attendees at the show who found the Phantom show offensive filled out a questionaire? Did they rank the violence on a gasp-o-meter? (and some people that are gasping follow it up with "Wow", and not in a bad way).

I give people more credit with being able to watch a dramatic show and not have the uncontrollable urge to commit violence afterwards.

And Phrygia is not decapitated - if they simulated a head rolling off onto the field, I would say that was overkill (pun intended) and I would not enjoy it.

If you find this type of drama offensive, maybe you have had an experience in real life that makes you overly sensitive to this. Someone who has been imprisoned may cringe at the sight of seeing the guard portrayed bound in chains. This may be offensive to the people that have had that particular experience but it doesn't mean that everyone who sees it would or should cringe at the sight of these things. I sympathize with anyone that cringes because of an affiliation to a personal tragedy like murder but we can't censor everything as a result.

Many people are frightened by clowns or birds.............should be make sure that there is a warning in the program should they appear in a show?

In general, I don't think "killing" people is at the top of everyone's list of entertainment, but in a show about Gladiators and slave uprising, it is appropriate and neccessary to tell the story.

Marimba Mom

Edited July 7, 2008 by PhanFan