Can Phantom win?

[The Tsar]

Alright - I've been biting my tongue, but I shall no longer. Why does everyone have a problem with the visual this year? Is everyone watching / judging this year's show, or is this sentiment based on past vibes and the common feeling that 'Phantom's problem is visual'.

I think the visual program is effective, but I am extremely biased. Can you guys please let me know why you think it is lacking?

I think it is hard for people to let go of preconceived notions.

You know, there was a time when PR's percussion was their VERY VERY weak link. You marched in the years following that...I am sure you guys had trouble getting people to believe that Regiment might actually have a good line. Heck, I remember 2003 when the line started to assert itself, there were plenty of people here on DCP who kept insisting that their line was overrated and not good at all.

It doesn't help that Regiment has a new drill designer this year, and that it is their what....10th in 17 years? This is going to cause people to be very wary about giving PR the benefit of the doubt. Heck, I admit that I too had concerns about the new guy. Allow me to go on the record here:

I think Nick has done a great job in his first year of major corps design. He will only get better, and that is great news for Regiment.

I think that the staff at PR needs to make the commitment to him to keep consistency for a number of years, and they need to make the commitment to taking a huge leap next year visually. While I think the drill this year is pretty good, I don't think it is on level with Cavaliers or SCV's. I do, however, think it is close to BD design-wise....I don't see anything in BD's visual (other than their guard, that is) that is light years ahead of PR's visual. BD is much, much cleaner than PR is visually right now, however....and I think that tends to make people think the design is much better than it actually is.

If PR can clean up the drill, I think they are going to do fairly well. I suspect that they need to get a top three caption ranking in Visual Ensemble and Visual Performance, and at least a 4th place finish in Guard to seriously contend. We'll tell much more after tonight, but....I kinda sense another 2nd place finish coming if they can hold off Crown. I hope I am wrong. BD can afford to lose a few titles to Regiment. Heck, even if PR were to win a title every year until 2020, they'd only be TIED with the Devils in that category....heh heh.

[PhantomCrown]

Really...? I mean... Are we REALLY having this conversation again? Phantom hasn't gotten higher than 3rd against full competition this year, but of course it seems to DCP that they're going to be the favorites going into Indy. And are Phantom fans really naive enough to forget that just a few days ago, they were behind Crown? I'm pretty sure that Carolina Crown is all kinds of fired up now, and Phantom should look in their rearview.

Another thing... Are we HONESTLY having conversations about Phantom winning when the Blue Devils are getting 4th in overall music, and still beating them by nearly a point and a half.

I'm sorry though, I guess I can't understand logic with all the honking in my ears

[bdkappasig]

Really...? I mean... Are we REALLY having this conversation again? Phantom hasn't gotten higher than 3rd against full competition this year, but of course it seems to DCP that they're going to be the favorites going into Indy. And are Phantom fans really naive enough to forget that just a few days ago, they were behind Crown? I'm pretty sure that Carolina Crown is all kinds of fired up now, and Phantom should look in their rearview.

Another thing... Are we HONESTLY having conversations about Phantom winning when the Blue Devils are getting 4th in overall music, and still beating them by nearly a point and a half.

I'm sorry though, I guess I can't understand logic with all the honking in my ears

thank you! thats what ive been saying. Im not knockin the program cuz its really good. but everybody around here has gotten so cocky cuz of ONE show. if crown would have won last night. PR fans would be saying the same thing...that it was just one show and theres lots of time left for them to pass crown. why cant the same be true for crown ya'll. im not saying it wont happen im saying that its just not as much of a certainty as some people on here are making it out to be.

[Huntington Mallets]

No. Phantom cannot win.

/sarcasm

[bgg80]

A lot of chatter here that all Phantom has to do is simply clean the show they have, up their visual scores, and they'll pass BD. I'd submit that BD placing third in brass 2-3 weeks out from finals represents upside. Just look at last year. BD was running 3rd or 4th in brass and made a huge surge finals week to win the caption. I'd also submit that BD won't be .5 off of PR in percussion come finals night. Visual is equal in weighting to music (not sure how that theme got started...) BD's guard is head and shoulders above PR. I don't see that changing too much in the next 2+ weeks. Visual performance is about both how they are performing, as well as difficulty. Watch BD's show this year and what they are doing in terms of marching (and playing). On visual ensemble, I don't believe PR has the complete visual package to catch BD. Finally, I've read that BD added a fair amount of new elements into their show this week. Assume some cleaning needed there.

In summary -- I think BD can gain more on PR in music than PR can gain on BD visually. Don't count out Downey/Johnson and team and the talent in BD's horn and drum lines.

I do believe, because of the biggest caption, GE vis/music, that PR will end up in second behind BD and ahead of Cavs. Cavs' show this year seems to be scoring below their traditional excellence in this category.

Finals prediction:

1. BD (high GE vis (and overall GE), high vis ens, high CG, high brass (tie))

2. PR (high GE mus, high brass (tie), high mus ens, high perc)

3. Cavs (high vis perf)

4. CC

5. Cadets (tough time holding off SCV)

6. SCV

7. Bluecoats

[JOHNNY_A]

I think B.D's will win. I'm thinking that 2nd 3rd and 4th will be up for grabs though. Crown is coming on strong and could seriously challenge for 2nd.

[the lone ranger]

Alright - I've been biting my tongue, but I shall no longer. Why does everyone have a problem with the visual this year? Is everyone watching / judging this year's show, or is this sentiment based on past vibes and the common feeling that 'Phantom's problem is visual'.

I think the visual program is effective, but I am extremely biased. Can you guys please let me know why you think it is lacking?

honestly the visual program is lacking, its not put together very well, the colorguard is integrated rather poorly, and they have many transitional moments and a few scatter to your set moments.

if you look at th recap i think it is only gonna get worse. its not about getting cleaner as so many people say. the numbers they are getting visually have there performance numbers higher than the rep/voc numbers which is something you dont want to see. so the closer we get to dci the more of a spread that will open up in those captions and the corps that are beating them visually.

[PhantomCrown]

I think I'm gonna flip flop my position.

Phantom's OBVIOUSLY going to win because 1996 and 2008 are both even numbers divisible by 4. And the number 4 is the placement they were JUST LAST WEEK. And the number 4 is what the FIRST PLACE CORPS from M.Boro was in music while still winning by a significant amount. And the number 4 the also the number of times that Phantom HAVE NOT beaten the Cavaliers or Blue Devils this year.

Science > Show design and execution

[bdkappasig]

I think I'm gonna flip flop my position.

Phantom's OBVIOUSLY going to win because 1996 and 2008 are both even numbers divisible by 4. And the number 4 is the placement they were JUST LAST WEEK. And the number 4 is what the FIRST PLACE CORPS from M.Boro was in music while still winning by a significant amount. And the number 4 the also the number of times that Phantom HAVE NOT beaten the Cavaliers or Blue Devils this year.

Science > Show design and execution

winner

[CrunchyTenor]

"Have it in"- no

"Aren't capable of recognizing levels of greatness outside of BD or Cavies or Cadets"- most definitely.

Which begs the obvious question (and certainly not a new one), are DCI judges biased? Not in all cases, but there are several that have that reputation. For some reason they get it in their heads that since it's Corps A, they must be best in their caption.

Last night when looking at the recaps, I mentioned to my wife that Nola Jones was judging color guard. Without seeing the scores (she was across the room), and not having seen a show this year, she said, "She gave it to BD."

Are judges capable of looking at all the corps without the blue, maroon, green, green/red, cream colored glasses? In a perfect world, yes. But judges, being human, bring their biases and preconcieved notions with them. Some are certainly more objective than others, but it only takes a couple of "homers" to skew the scores.

How many times have you gone to a show, then looked at the recaps and wondered what show the judge was at?

I will close these comments with the recognition that judging is a tremendous responsibility, and that most do a terrific job. But those few...

Garry in Vegas