Jared_mello Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I don't get it either. Live the crowd was electric with Bluecoats and the only crowd reaction with SCVwas when the crowd yelled Vanguard for them... one of my biggest goosebump moments of the night was actually because of the crowd.....the reaction to 'the boxer' was UNBELIEVABLE. im really proud of that hornline, and thankful the drum corps world appreciates the purity of an unconcealed hornline playing fff as well as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Okay......If I shake your hand, then slap you in the face...Same thing, right? My point is that he could just leave off the last 90% of his statement. No need to bash someone with your "compliments." How in the world is me saying that I don't like a show the same thing as bashing it? Did I hurt your feelings? I'm incredibly sorry for pissing off Blue Devil nation, but the 2008 Blue Devils production is not my cup of tea. It doesn't mean I dislike the corps. It doesn't mean I wouldn't support the kids and the organization. I marched with a corps that a lot of people did not like. But I never questioned their opinion. It was nothing more than an opinion. It wasn't a slap in the face. I will never fault the members for marching and playing their ##### off. The talent and determination is incredible. But, IMHO, the vehicle they have this year looks more like Honda than a Rolls. A very nice Honda, but still not a Rolls. That's my opinion... if you don't like, I'm truly sorry. That's your problem, not mine. As for tomorrow night, I wish them the best of luck and a kick ### show! They've worked hard all year and desrve to win as much as anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 only got scores and reactions texted to me...i was watching the Phils lose in 12....but from those i talked to there that know visual, they can not comprehend Phantoms visual placement and BD's visual 10's. BD good...very much so. Phantom as good...no but not that far off. Bd is doing nothing groundbreaking visually, unless you count all the body stuff done zillions of times in WGI. Here's hoping the music side of the house has the set to pop spreads like the visual side is doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07-Socks Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 dont you guys sleep? On Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekrebs102 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 So the big difference tonight from last night sems to be Bluecoats going from 7th in guard to 12. OK, apparently the guard was so ticked at being 7th that they lost their mind and became 12th. That is a huge change. This next comment may have nothing to do with tonight, but I will put it out there for others to contemplate. In every other competitive activity that declares itself "professional" or at least the top of the game, the judges or refs or umpires have no affiliation with the teams, people, etc., that they are judging. (IF I AM WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME). Unfortunately, with the nature of our activity, most judges have been affiliated with a particular corps, or staff or organization prior to judging. With that fact and the fact that judging in DCI is COMPLETELY subjective, there is no way to change the fact that there will be bias by judges in the sport, activity, spectacle, etc. Unlike every other subjectively judged activity there is no set way to teach a corps in the way its brass, percussion or guard should perform and the basics that each section should know or even the "correct" way they should march. I am not sure a way to correct these issues other than to try to pool judges from outside the activity, but I do not think that will help. At least it is not practical. I guess I would rather see judges judge on merit of performance regardless of affiliation and style, and mandate that judges must be free from bias to some degree. The best way I can think of that is to create a Judge Oversight Comittee that monitors the judges on their scores from corps to corps and determine if there is too much bias in the system. Judges should not act as movie critics or sports announcers and use ther particular liking to determine what is good. Skill, conformity, balance, technicality, difficulty, etc. should determine the winner. Every jujdge in every category should be reviewed strenuously. Anyway, I guess more oversight is needed and less personal opinion and more expert decision making is needed. Not to say the judges are not experts, but they should relay on community standards to determine rank as opposed to opinion. There is no "right way" per se to hit a drum, play a horn or swing a flag. However the difficulty required to do so cleanly with a good tone and balance and a uniformity of the guard is capable of ajudication. I Vent off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I agree, there is no way they should be behind Santa Clara and Cadets. I swear the judges have something against the Bluecoats. They were the first and only corps to give me goosebumps tonight. Phantom, Cavies and Blue Devils almost did. Granted, I wasn't there last night, but was watching via the Fan Network's high cam, but looking at the recaps, IMO the judges got it right. Bluecoats are ahead of Santa Clara in music, but trail in visual. Musically, Bluecoats are spectacular. Loved 'em in Buffalo, but I saw a lot of dirt in Bluecoats' drill, especially watching from the high-cam angle. Granted, Santa Clara wasn't clean as a whistle, but the demand and stylistic design of their visual program is light years ahead of Bluecoats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I agree, there is no way they should be behind Santa Clara and Cadets. This is why you are not a DCI judge I swear the judges have something against the Bluecoats. No. The judges have something against Madison... and Phantom... and Pioneer... and <insert corps here> All I hear is "Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah" They were the first and only corps to give me goosebumps tonight. Phantom, Cavies and Blue Devils almost did. That's great. However DCI is not judged on the number of goosebumps a particular corps gives you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Some of us are not even talking about the 20's, I could care less... I know they don't mean perfection. My issue is with the spread and the spread increasing... I don't even care about us being in 3rd... but to have gone down in spread? I just don't see it... not from what I just watched... that was some amazing drill that I've never seen before... and it was #### clean. I say threeway tie or have some closer scores... but don't start spreading stuff out that shouldn't be. Even though the Cavaliers dropped in placement, they're still only half a point out of first. That's only an increase in gap of 0.175. In quarters, Cavalies won GE by 0.05. Last night Cavaliers lost GE by 0.10 to the Blue Devils, so that 0.150 swing almost tells the entire tale by itself. I might be wrong, but tonight's GE panel seems pro-Cavaliers. With three corps within half a point, anything can still happen at the top. Of course, history's not really on the side of anyone but BD, at this point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I am not sure a way to correct these issues other than to try to pool judges from outside the activity, but I do not think that will help. At least it is not practical. I guess I would rather see judges judge on merit of performance regardless of affiliation and style, and mandate that judges must be free from bias to some degree. The best way I can think of that is to create a Judge Oversight Comittee that monitors the judges on their scores from corps to corps and determine if there is too much bias in the system. Judges should not act as movie critics or sports announcers and use ther particular liking to determine what is good. Skill, conformity, balance, technicality, difficulty, etc. should determine the winner. Every jujdge in every category should be reviewed strenuously. And so what would the oversight comitee be doing that is different than what the judges are doing? Their decisions would still be subjective and based on opinion, and yes, they would still have their own biases. Would you have an oversight comittee for the oversight comittee to make sure the oversight comittee wasn't being too harsh on one judge or another? It really isn't accurate to compare drum corps to other types of professional activities, especially sports. Referees in sports have the luxury of black and white rules. If the ball is over the line, it's out. Period. If there is any question they can view the instant replay. The only thing I can ever see working, would be a system whereby a judge who has initiated a significant change in score from what other judges have handed out be required to justify their thoughts on the score somehow. At the end of the day, we are all going to praise the judges that make bold moves in favor of our corps, regardless of whether or not it seems legit, and we're all going to condemn the judge that leaves our corps slotted, regardless of whether or not it seems legit. DCI judges exsist in a lose/lose world as far as fans are concerned. They will never make everyone happy with their score. So it always has been, and so it always will be. Blue Stars going into finals in 8th place. I'm speechless. FCO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 However DCI is not judged on the number of goosebumps a particular corps gives you Which is too bad, because personally I think there should be a judge sitting next to me all the time counting goosebumps and recording the score. Box 5 on the Jim's goosebump sheet would be goosebumps all the way up the arms and down the spine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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