Colts 08 ... Better than Madison?

[TealEuph7]

I disagree. I definitely think Scouts show was better.

[LAMystreaux]

I soooooooooo wanted the Crossmen to be in, and I also really grew to love the Colts show, but when it came down to it, Madison was the corps out of the three who was the cleanest and who brought it Finals week. I hated to see it or admit it, but that is how it went down.

[byline]

It happens? I realize judges are human - but WOW! I thought judges were supposed to be unbiased and capable of evaluating a performance based on it's merits alone. I'm not ragging on you, but I think this shows that it's impossible to remove bias or preconceived notions from drum corps judging.

Try finding a judge who is unbiased, and you will be looking a long, long time. It's like journalism; people mistakenly think reporters are supposed to be completely objective. Guess what: You will never, ever find a completely objective reporter, and that perception of what journalism is supposed to be is an impossible ideal. What good reporters make every effort to be is fair and balanced. But there's a huge difference between that and total objectivity. Journalists are as subjective as the next person, but the good ones try to keep that from influencing their reporting. But ask a reporter if his/her bias has never, ever influenced his/her reporting, and you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who will honestly insist that that has been the case for them.

It's the same with judging. Looking back over my 14-year judging career, I think I got it right about 99 percent of the time. But there are a couple of instances I can clearly recall where I know that I skewed one guard up because, based on their past history, I'd known them to be not very good, and that year they were pretty good. And then another guard in that same class had a less-than-stellar show, but I'd known them to be a superb guard. So I bumped the one score up, bumped the other score down, and part of that was due to perception. It happens. You don't like it? Hey, neither did I, especially when I realized what I'd done. But there wasn't a thing I could do about it, so you move on and learn from that mistake.

[oldtimedrummer]

I think Colts had a very good "what" and an inconsistent "how."

Scouts had a very consistent "how" and not so good "what."

My preference is a better "what" than a better "how"

reading many of the posts on DCP, I get the impression that people care more about the "how" that the "what" and assume that all the "what's" are equal. They aren't.

Sounds to me like you've been to a George O. clinic. I wish more people really understood derived achievement, especially on this website. As far as the OP, IMO, selecting the 12 spot may have been the toughest judging task of the season, as all three, ( Scouts, Bones, Colts) were deserving. It's too bad there couldn't have been a three way tie for 12th. I have to hand it to the Scouts. When I saw them in Madison I thought their chances were slim to none. Belly up in the sun, dead in the water, etc...They had a good drill, and the staff did the right things. Bones and Colts were also outstanding drum corps too, and they both should be proud of their great seasons.

Edited August 15, 2008 by oldtimedrummer

[elmhurstmusiced]

Were the Colts better, were the Scouts better...it's a debate that none of us can truly answer.

Here's where the facts lie though...

The Scouts consistently scored higher than the Colts in the latter part of the season, so it shouldn't really come as a shock to us that the Scouts beat them on finals night.

Now the Scouts/Crossmen debate, that's another story, although I still think that the Scouts had the stronger elements in key areas, which is what pushed them up during quarters.

[nctarheels05]

i'll bite.

the first time i saw anything all season was the week of allentown and semifinals night. So since im a drill junkie, i am all about clean, readable forms and GE.

if anyone noticed, the first 4 minutes (until the moon rotating circle thing, which even though was cool, was dirty) of the show for the colts was scatter drill. Not 1 form lasted more than 2-3 sets. HOW can you clean that?!?! and people said crossmen parekd and barked too much back in the day.... not any more. Crossmen had the hardest drill out of all 3 corps and honestly visually crossmen was the cleanest both in feet and guard.

also i observed that when madison was preforming semi's night, people were obnoxiously clapping for every little thing even if it was dirty. It was like claping for the name Madison not for the product. You can be die hard fans/alumni, but i don't clap for drity weather its my fav corps or not.

what happened with the scores happened, but just because you (OP) thought that someone was more entertaining that someone, doesn't mean shhh on the sheets.

jus sayin....

[BariFleur]

i'll bite.

the first time i saw anything all season was the week of allentown and semifinals night. So since im a drill junkie, i am all about clean, readable forms and GE.

if anyone noticed, the first 4 minutes (until the moon rotating circle thing, which even though was cool, was dirty) of the show for the colts was scatter drill. Not 1 form lasted more than 2-3 sets. HOW can you clean that?!?! and people said crossmen parekd and barked too much back in the day.... not any more. Crossmen had the hardest drill out of all 3 corps and honestly visually crossmen was the cleanest both in feet and guard.

also i observed that when madison was preforming semi's night, people were obnoxiously clapping for every little thing even if it was dirty. It was like claping for the name Madison not for the product. You can be die hard fans/alumni, but i don't clap for drity weather its my fav corps or not.

what happened with the scores happened, but just because you (OP) thought that someone was more entertaining that someone, doesn't mean shhh on the sheets.

jus sayin....

/spellcheck?

fail....

[Cop]

i'll bite.

the first time i saw anything all season was the week of allentown and semifinals night. So since im a drill junkie, i am all about clean, readable forms and GE.

if anyone noticed, the first 4 minutes (until the moon rotating circle thing, which even though was cool, was dirty) of the show for the colts was scatter drill. Not 1 form lasted more than 2-3 sets. HOW can you clean that?!?! and people said crossmen parekd and barked too much back in the day.... not any more. Crossmen had the hardest drill out of all 3 corps and honestly visually crossmen was the cleanest both in feet and guard.

also i observed that when madison was preforming semi's night, people were obnoxiously clapping for every little thing even if it was dirty. It was like claping for the name Madison not for the product. You can be die hard fans/alumni, but i don't clap for drity weather its my fav corps or not.

what happened with the scores happened, but just because you (OP) thought that someone was more entertaining that someone, doesn't mean shhh on the sheets.

jus sayin....

I, for one, am SO GLAD that DCI was judged by an "APPLAUSE meter." Can you imagine what the outcome would have been if they had.... lets say... trained adjudicators on the field and in the press box?

I bet there would have been an entirely different outcome and we would not be here today trying to figure out who IS the best 12th place corps!

When you guys do figure it out, lets post it on DCI.org and close off the season.

Is there a thread where we vote for the first place corps? Or did we go to the judges for that slot?

Edited August 15, 2008 by Cop

[silvertrombone]

You know, I'm pretty naive on such things, but is it pretty common to start a second screen name and post something just totally off the wall?

1.) DCI didn't "pick" the 12th place corps. The 12th place corps beat the 13th place corps (as well as 14th and 15th) fair and square. Same as my Academy/Blue Stars argument last year...if you want to claim 'better' title over a corps, beat them head-to-head...and Scouts beat Colts in 1/4's and semis both. Not even close. In fact, when was the last time Colts beat Scouts this year? Not bashing Colts, as they were quite good. But there are only 12 spots and Madison earned the last one this year.

2.) Welcome to the planet...again.

[Hrothgar15]

I loved both shows but thought Madison was definitely the better corps.