2009 Could be Carolina Crown's year

[Kekkles]

You've managed to make me speechless.

[Contra Mom]

Sheesh... what a thread.

What the heck, I'll put in my 0.02 (all IMO) --

Crown can have a shot when they stop writing the show around the hornline.

They need to cut it out with the schizophrenic arrangements. Why waste a nice Debussy moment by tossing in Bernstein and Holst?

They need to have more "looks" to the drill, rather than mostly having the horns move around in front while the drums stay in back.

They need to find a way to feature the guard without resorting to cheesy horse impressions.

This year's show may have deliberately been a hornline-focused show. It wasn't bad, either -- I mean, EVERYbody was talking about Crown's hornline. But, nobody seemed to care about either the drums or the guard.

Watching Cadets and Crown back-to-back really showed me some contrasts in show design. As long as I ignored the Cadets' stage prop (which, IMO, hurt them more than anything), I could see that they had more variety to their drill and did a better job of highlighting the drums and guard. Crown's drill just didn't seem to get away from blocks and wide curvilinear forms -- great for showing off hornlines, but not so good for drawing attention to the rest of the corps.

It also sounds like their horn writing is largely unison except for big hits. Except for Claire de Lune, you'll hear a unison/octave trumpet part, one mello part, and often a single low brass part. It's great for masking individuals and generating a big sound overall, but cuts down on the difficulty part of the judging sheet. It could be blamed more on the choice of repertoire than the arrangements.

We already know that they can execute extremely well. The kids just need to be given a visual package and show concept to put them over the top.

Wow, do I ever disagree with "everything" you said! I must admit that I am biased being a parent of a Crown member but to say no one cared about their guard is ridiculous. Their guard is highly respected & finished in the top 3 all season long. Crowns guard was superior to the Cadets in every way IMO.

Michael Klesch who arranges their music is a genius in my opinion & to say that the horn writing is largely in unison is laughable!! I don't know who you were listening to but it wasn't Crown. Their visual package was extremely difficult & was very intricate, not just blocks as you state. You need to watch their show again IMO!

[Kekkles]

Wow, do I ever disagree with "everything" you said! I must admit that I am biased being a parent of a Crown member but to say no one cared about their guard is ridiculous. Their guard is highly respected & finished in the top 3 all season long. Crowns guard was superior to the Cadets in every way IMO.

Michael Klesch who arranges their music is a genius in my opinion & to say that the horn writing is largely in unison is laughable!! I don't know who you were listening to but it wasn't Crown. Their visual package was extremely difficult & was very intricate, not just blocks as you state. You need to watch their show again IMO!

LOL

[Contreuph]

Sorry for the rambling thoughts, but I'm listening to Crown's new studio(outdoor) recordings from 2008, and thought I would share...

Pure speculation here( I know we are 10 months out), but with recent staff changes in other corps, I'm wondering if 2009 could be the Year that Crown really competes for a Championship. Their design staff gets it, and they were probably just a tick or two off from being there this year. The drums will need to step it up a bit, but that is do-able. And the visual design will need a few tweaks, but nothing major.

Great beats and notes, and a much improved visual show. Mix the talent of the 2008 corps, and the awesome design from 2007... the sky is the limit.

I know we're still on the Regiment high, but the Regiment/Blue Devils/battle next year could be epic.

Thoughts?

Ha I totally called this finals night

Just like I did after BD won, I said Phantom would win 2008 hahaha

I think I have drum corps ESPn

[Leland]

Wow, do I ever disagree with "everything" you said! I must admit that I am biased being a parent of a Crown member but to say no one cared about their guard is ridiculous. Their guard is highly respected & finished in the top 3 all season long. Crowns guard was superior to the Cadets in every way IMO.

Michael Klesch who arranges their music is a genius in my opinion & to say that the horn writing is largely in unison is laughable!! I don't know who you were listening to but it wasn't Crown. Their visual package was extremely difficult & was very intricate, not just blocks as you state. You need to watch their show again IMO!

Firstly, understand that nothing I've said has been a knock on the kids, nor do I have an issue with their performance abilities. My frustration is with the design of their show.

The guard was hardly featured. A few "watch us now" tosses here and there, but they spent so much time on the perimeter that they were just window dressing.

The horns' drill was intricate, yes, and required a lot of effort from the members, but it spent an awful lot of time in one part of the field. If you take a video and fast-forward through it, you'll mostly see a mass milling about in the middle-front of the field, with a couple minutes of being spread wide for the ballad. Other championship-winning corps often extend to the corners (BD and SCV isolated themselves into the far left and near right corners, respectively, in '99, for example), push everyone to one half or the other, and generally make use of empty green space. That's why they can win, and it's what Crown needs to do before they can win it all themselves.

Listen again to the horn book. The faster the notes came, the thinner the harmonies got. I still think it was due to the music they chose and not to mask what few errors they might've had.

Crown has had interesting design in the past, but this year, it was mostly just a demonstration of execution. BD came out with outright craziness, Phantom killed people on the field, Bluecoats rocked the crowd with (featherweight ;) ) boxing, and even Blue Stars turned a bicycle race into an entertaining program. Crown played... well, they did a bunch of things. That's a problem, though -- like I said, they'd work nicely into a musical idea, and then shift into another piece that was hardly related. It was like taking a bunch of Greatest Hits from Beethoven, Debussy, Bernstein, Tchaikovsky, etc., putting the melodies into boxes labeled Opener, Ballad, and Closer, then shaking them up and dumping them onto a table. It was really cool from an arranger's perspective, but it didn't really explore any of them very much.

Crown is *this close* to being a title contender. A more cohesive show concept, with better direction of staging, is what can push them over the top.

[mellodramatic]

Firstly, understand that nothing I've said has been a knock on the kids, nor do I have an issue with their performance abilities. My frustration is with the design of their show.

The guard was hardly featured. A few "watch us now" tosses here and there, but they spent so much time on the perimeter that they were just window dressing.

The horns' drill was intricate, yes, and required a lot of effort from the members, but it spent an awful lot of time in one part of the field. If you take a video and fast-forward through it, you'll mostly see a mass milling about in the middle-front of the field, with a couple minutes of being spread wide for the ballad. Other championship-winning corps often extend to the corners (BD and SCV isolated themselves into the far left and near right corners, respectively, in '99, for example), push everyone to one half or the other, and generally make use of empty green space. That's why they can win, and it's what Crown needs to do before they can win it all themselves.

Listen again to the horn book. The faster the notes came, the thinner the harmonies got. I still think it was due to the music they chose and not to mask what few errors they might've had.

Crown has had interesting design in the past, but this year, it was mostly just a demonstration of execution. BD came out with outright craziness, Phantom killed people on the field, Bluecoats rocked the crowd with (featherweight ;) ) boxing, and even Blue Stars turned a bicycle race into an entertaining program. Crown played... well, they did a bunch of things. That's a problem, though -- like I said, they'd work nicely into a musical idea, and then shift into another piece that was hardly related. It was like taking a bunch of Greatest Hits from Beethoven, Debussy, Bernstein, Tchaikovsky, etc., putting the melodies into boxes labeled Opener, Ballad, and Closer, then shaking them up and dumping them onto a table. It was really cool from an arranger's perspective, but it didn't really explore any of them very much.

Crown is *this close* to being a title contender. A more cohesive show concept, with better direction of staging, is what can push them over the top.

/disagree

Claire de Lune was over three minutes long and the drill was spread out over the entire field for nearly all of it.

[Leland]

/disagree

Claire de Lune was over three minutes long and the drill was spread out over the entire field for nearly all of it.

Okay, "three" instead of "a couple". Don't forget that it was cluttered with plaintive stuff from West Side Story, too (One Hand One Heart, There's A Place For Us, and the dissonant low brass at the end) plus a hint of Holst's Venus.

Again, a Box O' Ballad Stuff. I wonder how many composers they'll draw from for next year's ballad.

[mellodramatic]

Don't forget the whole show was supposed to be about a mad conductor trying to find the right ending. They didn't really stress the concept that much but that's what it is. Three minutes plus is mad long for a ballad.

And where is this Venus part you're referring to? Just wonderin'

Edited September 6, 2008 by mellodramatic

[Leland]

Don't forget the whole show was supposed to be about a mad conductor trying to find the right ending. They didn't really stress the concept that much but that's what it is.

It sounded like the corps was trying to find the right ending, which left me wondering if they were going to stick with any one idea or just keep jumping around between clichés. Don't build up Festive Overture and then give me 1812 (and without a carillon, to boot ).

Three minutes plus is mad long for a ballad.

And where is this Venus part you're referring to? Just wonderin'

Yeah, it's long. At least it wasn't the opposite like some of BK in the early 90's, showing off Hardimon's drums for four minutes of the show.

The Venus bit that I'm hearing comes after they've turned backfield again, while they're still moving right before the trumpet resolution (and subsequent "Somewhere" quote in the mellos and low brass). It's only a few notes, and it may be in the original, but I don't remember hearing it in other arrangements, either.

[dcsnare93]

I don't think Phantom will repeat, just because repeating is hard as crap to do in DCI these days. Ask Cavies...they can only manage to win every OTHER year. I see PR falling to at least 3rd based on nothing but pure speculation. BD will never drop out of the Top 3. Cavies I think will take a plunge (I'm predicting a swap with Cadets in placement) Crown and Cadets will be big wildcards.

SCV will be in flux so they are also a wildcard. I just can't imagine the Top 5 changing much unless Bluecoats sneak in there or Blue Stars shock the world.

However with so many ?'s about certain corps...there is a good possibility that the title is open game this year for anyone.

I'd venture to say the title is open game right now.

With that said, I don't see Cavies taking a plunge. The talent was there. The programming was not. I do see Cadets heading up though.