What would it take to get Pioneer from last place in World Class?

[copyright]

Donny,

It's good to see that OfficerJenny and Drillwatcher havn't made their way onto this topic.

I think this is some great feedback so far and quite a reality check for the organization.

As someone posted earlier, perception is reality. Lets be honest, with the exeption of a few cases there are few students that corps hop over to pioneer after marching with another World Class corps. This leaves the recruiting efforts to focus on many individuals that have never marched a DCI tour. The (new) students in the stands at shows dont understand that drum corps is a lifechanging experience and that you will meet some of your best friends and maybe your future spouse through this wonderful activity, They can only see what is put on the field and who represents the corps.

I would love to see someone with a new drive and passion for the corps step up and assume the position of corps director/recruiting manager. Someone who can devote the time that it takes to get the right people involved and to take the sole responsibility of recruiting off the students shoulders.

Finally, I would finally like to see all of the military style hats buried next to the white jackets at pioneerland in hopes of starting a new chapter in Pioneer's history book (according to the website no one has cared to write one since 2005).

I say all of this with the preface that I care about the organization's success more than most people, and it pains me to see that sometimes tradition and doing things "the way they always have been done" trumps taking risks and creating a better experience for the kids - which may or may not include beating another corps in competition.

I hope that this helps.

[Donny Drum Corps]

All great stuff!

BTW I have asked Murray to monitor and even print this stuff, and at the possiblity of losing my tenure at Pioneer because of this thread...I need to say that I also care very much about the corps. This is stuff that has to be said by people other than me. I believe that it is healthy for the corps.

I may in trouble for it, but my intent is not a dirty backdoor way of approaching a healthy, (IMO) topic.

And again, I appreciate that everyone is still keeping it real!

Donny

[baritone9172]

There are many ideas, but as someone said, Pioneer did a better season last summer after we got rolling. The problem is when we dont have kids during the winter, we have to start in May. We are trying to get full when everyone has been full for some time.

I realize the idea of going to Open Class (I will not refer to it as 'dropping down a division' because there are no longer numerical values to these classes) may not be the best idea in some senses but in other areas it can benefit. Fighting for recruitment in May must be a tough job for a World Class corps. The corps is almost put in jeopardy. Every corps out their has holes to fill in May but from my understanding the numbers in Pios brass were pretty darn low for quite some time until the brink of summer.

The benefit of Open Class is that all corps are comprised of many different levels of talent (i think this may mirror Pio's current member talent percentage, and what they can probably attract right now), and all of these corps are different sizes. Because talent varies so much, numbers in the brass line don't often matter. Take Spokane Thunder for example. They were... correct me if I'm wrong... 15-18 strong in their brassline? Well, the brass book and show design matched what a line that size could handle. They came in 7th overall and maybe... 5th in brass? Oregon Crusaders had 30 brass I think and they took 4th overall, edging Teal Sound, a 70 man hornline. The thing I'm trying to get to is that if Pioneer went to Open Class and continue improving recruiting efforts, there could be a very reasonable size line in terms of Open Class to work with through the WHOLE WINTER. Quality of the program with probably increase if there is a whole WINTER to work with now. The winter is where basic fundamentals of playing and marching are usually built. Whether it is 20, 30, 40 bodies, whatever, the point is you can shoot for a lower number and expect better competitive results because that number will be there ALL SEASON, you won't have to fight in May. When all other variables stay constant or even increase (staff, programming, etc) and competitive success increases over one year, MEMBERSHIP increases. There is more to SELL to the members then.

Having a smaller corps, like you already have, and traveling less because in OC you don't have to do an extensive tour that starts in June, will bring down the costs of tour. I know that you would not get paid for shows but being a more local corps and having a few more weeknights and weekends free because you're not attending show after show, more parades or concerts could be another way to bring in money that shows once gave you in WC. Either way, there will probably be a little extra money lying around WHICH could be invested in staff who will stay the long term to build the program from the bottom up. Build it BACK into World Class if it so desires.

Right now it seems like Pio would like to build a 50 floor skyscraper of improvement but start building from the 25th floor rather than starting to build it from the foundation. It is much harder to start halfway through. In my eyes, starting it from the 25th floor is remaining in World Class and trying to reinvent the competitiveness of the corps. Building it from the foundation up is going to Open Class and trying to reinvent the corps' competitiveness. It is just more realistic.

In summary:

Being an Open Class corps could really have its benefits in the longterm. The corps could stay at the same quality it is now, assuming recruiting goes well and the corps can SELL an Open Class competitive status to its members, and take the extra pressure-free time and money to really lay down the bricks for the road ahead: staff/programming/member retention etc etc.

[copyright]

I will gladly pay for a new printer cartridge for the office if Murray wishes to print these responses.

Good stuff.

[bmroth1]

Donny,

My daughter marched in the Guard this past summer. It was her first year, and she wouldn't have had that opportunity at her experience level with any other world class corps. Also, I understand that the horn line had members in it that had never even picked up a brass instrument. You did an excellent job with them and it was a great learning experience and introduction to Drum Corps for both my daughter, your new members and all other new marching members in the corps.

With that said, here is an opportunity for improvement as I see it.... I remember being at some of your parades at the end of May, turning to my wife and saying I can't believe they only have 22 horns at this parade its Memorial day already! Are they going to have to change their schedule and compete in Open Class??? While there are many things the corps can do to improve that have already been mentioned here, the biggest issue is size, your second biggest issue is size. I remeber when I marched with the Royal Grenadiers they use to always tell us we will keep getting bigger by the next camp or just wait till our April or May camp for more numbers! MikeZ's comments were the best on here I've seen. Recruiting can't just come from everybody bringing a friend! You have to have a dynamic recruiting team working to bring in as many quality members as possible by your December camp, its really too late by time spring roles around. Then once they get there you have to get "buyin" from the members on goals you want to achieve as a corps together. People know the Pioneer and have certain expectations and the kids know that too so you have to sell to them the old "were going to shock the Drum Corps nation mentality!"

Even with my Daughter, as she imporved in her abilities she started talking about being tired of comming in last place, and moving on and trying out for other corps. She heard that speech one of your staff members gave at finals about getting 60 horn players for next year and improving and mostly because of that she thinks she might come back and see if its true. She would like it very much to be true but if she shows up at the December camp and doesn't see improved numbers or a fully committed staff getting everybody working to be competitive she isn't going to want to stay. I'm sure that's a similar story for many of your kids and probably has been the main retention issue for some time now.

Murray is a great guy, but he is not going to get the job done without a team of dynamic recruiters reaching out and drawing in kids. So to make a long story short. (ok its still long) I say go to Roman and convince him that you guys are ready to take the next step, and ask him to create a dynamic recruiting team that gets on the ball today!!!

Edited September 19, 2008 by bmroth1

[84Cadet]

I think judges ultimately like to see things that they haven't seen before. New concepts. Fresh ideas.

If Pioneer is serious about moving up, they will have to innovate.

Right now they are doing the exact same show every year.

[BigSnareline]

Lose the bus driver hats.

[Scerpella]

I hate to say it, but I do have to agree with this. I have a TON of respect for Pioneer and their staff and kids. I know people who've had fantastic experiences there. But I also know a ton of people who wouldn't go there because they wouldn't want to do an Irish-themed show year after year.

I also think the uniforms could use an overhaul. I believe I recall seeing a picture somewhere of the previous DM uniforms... white with a sequinced shamrock? I may just be imagining it. But I swear I do vaguely remember something like that that looked really sharp. I don't like the plaid.

Again, I have the utmost respect for Pioneer, but I do see the biggest issue as the redundant show concepts/music, and I think the uniforms aren't helping.

Pioneer played ONE Irish tune this year, the rest was Holst if I recall correctly. And ultimately uniforms dont matter so much as who's wearing them, I cite Star of Indiana, Glassmen, and Crown for just some examples of corps that have worn some "interesting"uniforms.

It has to do with getting and keeping people. Pioneer has served as the feeder for many top 12 corps over the years. I believe its about finding out why kids lose hope that Pioneer will move up and move on.

I agree that if things are not going to change materially, they should strongly consider going to Open Class.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Scerpella

[BozzlyB]

Just an honest question here. Someone earlier on mentioned the balance between compettitive focus and having a fun summer being weighted too far on the fun summer side. If Pioneer is having retention issues and is consistently seeing membership move on to upper tier corps, is the emphasis on the fun summer really having the intended effect? I think we need to remember that people who march corps are compettitive in nature, and the activity itself is centered around compettition. People can stay home and have fun summers, but if they march in a corps that is consistently not compettitive they won't be inclined to stay around for very long (as with every rule there are exceptions to this one). Personally I'm not a fan of any corps playing the same kind of music every year, but I think the bigger issue for Pioneer is the impression that they don't care about not being compettitive becuase they consider that aspect of drum corps to be secondary to the "member experience", when in reality the degree to which a corps is compettitve or not is a key factor in the experience of the marching member. At the end of the day I think being compettitive on the field has to be given more priority and focus, which in and of itself will add to the members having a quaility experience.

Edited September 19, 2008 by BozzlyB

[atlvalet]

The corps needs to find a college to partner with. Not necessarily in an official manner, but they need to have some connection to a college to get older kids in the corps. When the corps was at its strongest it had a TON of members from Murray State University speificaly and KY in general. It started with a staff member who taught at Murray St coming on board and over the years more and more kids from the school followed. It appears that at this time that connection does not exist with any schools.

DING, DING, DING!!!!

We have a winner :)