Which Corps Are Using Synthesizers

[MikeD]

Do you have an opinion based on your observations of bands that are using or have used electronics? If so, then you just contradicted yourself. Unless you feel you are the only one with an informed opinion.

I have opinions on how the band world has used them...well and not so well and in between. As of yet, I have no experience as to how DCI will actually use them. I certainly think they should be allowed, as I think ALL instruments should be allowed.

What is killing drum corps is the gung ho attitude of passing a rule first, then find out if it works later.

No, it's not. I have not seen any proof that corps are failing due to the existence of amps or multi-key or any other of the recent changes.

DCI has put the cart before the horse one to many times, and it becomes a case of the haves vs the have-nots all over again. Time and time again it becomes obvious that to remain competitive you have to have the state-of-the-art equipment, and it doesn't come cheap. Well, cheaper for some than others, and that's what keeps the others from catching up to the well-sponsored corps.

How many corps have used amplified narration? Micced singers? Not all that many.

Corps always have to make decisions when purchasing anything. That is their business, and as I wrote above, I have not seen where the newer things that have passed have run any corps out of business. If I am so close to the edge that the cost of an amp will put me under, I better not be hauling young people around the country and trying to feed them well and house them well.

As far as the Tim Kviz question I raised earlier, do you honestly think the instructors' caucus gave his proposals any consideration at all? Personally, I would have reworked the text slightly myself, but they still summarily dismissed them without any real consideration.

They gave him the chance to present what he wanted to say. That's all the weight they should have given them...IMO of course. They did not need any more than that to see how bad they were.

[bawker]

No, it's not. Electronics are legal, so if you want to prove they are a bad idea to have in general, it's up to you to come up with something. A good or poor use by one or more bands proves nothing. That just shows how those bands used them, not that their existence is a bad idea.

Now we're getting into some deep philosophical stuff, and debating the "existence" of electronics. . .does that synth have a soul? And, of course, usage proves nothing! Hey, their intent was good!

At this point, Mike, it's all just marching band . . . I asked for some examples of good usage from someone who's pro-electronics that's not quite as far off in left field as you are with this line of debate, and got a few answers as to where to look.

If I get more than one or two shows out of World Class that entertains me in 2009, I'll consider that a good year. No worries here.

Much like amplification around 2006 for me, it's just one more experiment to watch unfold from afar; playing devils advocate here is only to pass the time.

Tilt at windmills with someone else.

[MikeD]

IMO as long as the people actually performing are still getting a good experience, then there isn't a problem. I had a great experience this summer, performed in front of great enthusiastic crowds. All the complaining I see on here, honestly isn't reflected in the stands, when i see most everyone enjoying themselves for pretty much every performance. Even the cadets, even during their 06 show, people were enjoying it, a lot of people.

That is a key point IMO...DCP, as I have been saying forever, is a small subset of the total DCI audience.

[84skyrydr]

I have opinions on how the band world has used them...well and not so well and in between. As of yet, I have no experience as to how DCI will actually use them. I certainly think they should be allowed, as I think ALL instruments should be allowed.

All instruments ARE allowed in another marching music grouping. Drum corps is different for a reason. Why the insatiable need to blend the two into one?

[BlueShades152]

You know, all this complaining and putting high school bands down (is there really a reason for that?) and you know what...we're still going to have synthesizers next year. I would much rather get used to the idea and find a way to accept it and find some positive aspects of it, instead of spending the next 7 months talking about how it's going to fail and how I'm not going to any more shows, etc. before we even see anything on the field. I've pretty much said all that I had to say on the subject by now. But I'm looking forward to seeing what some of the corps are going to put on the field for 2009.

[Tom Brace]

After all of this...what do we have so far?

3-4 corps with an audition spot open for a syntheiser-ist?

and one of them will more than likely be an Open Class corps next year as is.

Or is all this because it was MADISON who was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon?

Can Pioneer be far behind?

Have any corps come out and said they will not be using a synthesizer in 2009?

I'd love Cadets to release that...what a ironic frost in our eye.

[corps8294]

Newsflash! With the recent electronics proposal, the Cavaliers have decided to produce a part two of their popular android show from a few years ago. They will be using sampled voices from Gorf, Wizard of Wor, and Berzerk.

Anyone got a quarter?

lol

[84skyrydr]

You know, all this complaining and putting high school bands down (is there really a reason for that?) and you know what...we're still going to have synthesizers next year. I would much rather get used to the idea and find a way to accept it and find some positive aspects of it, instead of spending the next 7 months talking about how it's going to fail and how I'm not going to any more shows, etc. before we even see anything on the field. I've pretty much said all that I had to say on the subject by now. But I'm looking forward to seeing what some of the corps are going to put on the field for 2009.

You are drinking the cool aid. I too am looking forward to what the corps put on the field. It will tell me if my time is up or not. It may be the best thing ever, but it still is just another crutch to use when the directors, designers and staff fail at new ideas utilizing the tools already allowed. If noone raises a stink at the overt attempt to take something ALOT of us have liked and been an integral part of for most our lives, and turn it into something that ALREADY exists ( BAND ) then sooner rather than later, we will all be watching the death of what was once known as drum corps. You are young, in time, something you love and support will try and change into something that already exists and then you will know how the rest of us feel. My only hope is that drum corps still exists when you are my age. In my years it has DWINDLED. Everyone says it is because of the economics, yet, the corps keep voting new EXPENSIVE options to obtain. If you don't obtain them, YOU LOSE. More and more expenditures equal less and less corps, while the ones that are left are becoming nothing more than all star bands. I don't miss the old days, but I will miss drum corps.....

[BlueShades152]

How do you know how old I am?

Anyway...I do understand how it upsets some people. I'm not exactly jumping for joy over it, but I do believe that for the most part, those who choose to use this will do so in a manner that will enhance the show and will not go overboard. I guess we'll all find out in June. Hey, I may even hate it once I see it, but I like to stay optimistc.

Edited October 21, 2008 by BlueShades152

[CrunchyTenor]

(CrunchyTenor @ Oct 20 2008, 06:47 PM)

Do you have an opinion based on your observations of bands that are using or have used electronics? If so, then you just contradicted yourself. Unless you feel you are the only one with an informed opinion.

I have opinions on how the band world has used them...well and not so well and in between. As of yet, I have no experience as to how DCI will actually use them. I certainly think they should be allowed, as I think ALL instruments should be allowed.

Then why discount his opinion? Or anyone else's? You're really quick to state that someone is "WRONG", as if only your opinion is the "RIGHT" one.

And by "all" instruments, do you mean anything they can drag out on the field? Because there's already a place for that. It's called band. Y'know, I'll make you a deal. You stop trying to change drum corps into band and I won't try to turn band into all-brass and percussion, unamplified with no vocals drum corps.

What is killing drum corps is the gung ho attitude of passing a rule first, then find out if it works later.

No, it's not. I have not seen any proof that corps are failing due to the existence of amps or multi-key or any other of the recent changes.

Oh, OK, so the expense of replacing the whole brass choir; purchasing mics, amps and mixing boards; and now synthesizers have had no effect at all on the budgets of drum corps? Especially the one's with no sweetheart deal with Yamaha? Sure, if you say so.

Having been on the BoD of Impulse when the brass rule was put into effect, we breathed a sigh of relief when D II/III decided on a moratorium for a couple of seasons. You can't deny that having everything the rules allow is seen as competitive and not having them is suicide.

DCI has put the cart before the horse one to many times, and it becomes a case of the haves vs the have-nots all over again. Time and time again it becomes obvious that to remain competitive you have to have the state-of-the-art equipment, and it doesn't come cheap. Well, cheaper for some than others, and that's what keeps the others from catching up to the well-sponsored corps.

How many corps have used amplified narration? Micced singers? Not all that many.

You dodged the question, or at least skated around it. You focused on singers, but the majority of the expense was for mics for keyboards, amplifiers, speakers and mixing boards. Now tell me, with the majority using them in that capacity, how it hasn't affected fiscal survival for drum corps.

Corps always have to make decisions when purchasing anything. That is their business, and as I wrote above, I have not seen where the newer things that have passed have run any corps out of business. If I am so close to the edge that the cost of an amp will put me under, I better not be hauling young people around the country and trying to feed them well and house them well.

I guess you haven't seen a drum corps budget in a few years. Most, if not all, drum corps are walking a tightrope when it comes to finances. It's a thin line between doing what they need to do to be considered competitive and going under, every freakin' year. Do you know why Cadets and Blue Devils were the first to use Bb/F brass? Their sponsorships. Do you know why Pioneer finally got Bb/F brass last year? They finally saved up the money. The threat from the judging community didn't hurt, either.

The rules are changed so fast that only the upper echelon can afford to adopt them. Then, just when the lower echelon gets on board, WHAM!, another rule change, another major financial impact for those with fewer resources.

As far as the Tim Kviz question I raised earlier, do you honestly think the instructors' caucus gave his proposals any consideration at all? Personally, I would have reworked the text slightly myself, but they still summarily dismissed them without any real consideration.

They gave him the chance to present what he wanted to say. That's all the weight they should have given them...IMO of course. They did not need any more than that to see how bad they were.

"Bad" is a judgement. You seem to forget all the people that supported Tim's proposals. Maybe the proposals shouldn't be posted before the caucus. That way they'd be forced to hear the proposals presented by the sponsor. The instructors had already made up their mind before they got to Orlando. Tim was given the bum's rush. If you doubt me, just PM him to see what really happened. Unless you're one of the closed-minded people.

What passes for "good" proposals seem poorly written and poorly researched. Nothing ever seems to have a financial impact in the proposals as written. I've got some news for you. EVERYTHING has a financial impact.

So, I'll once more invite you to start your own summer band circuit and leave drum corps alone. Don't forget, I have contact information for some who have tried before. I'm sure they could enlighten you.

Garry in Vegas

Edited October 22, 2008 by CrunchyTenor