Jeff Ream Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hey Jim, when did you start hearing that Drum Corps is defined by the experience? Never noticed it myself until the key change proposal kicked in. Kinda like someone went back and started changing the Funk and Wagnals.Well time to get ready for my day off. Will have to check the next few pages when I get back tonight.... Edit: Just noticed my rating really dropped... Wonder who I PO'ed... i never heard the experience until the key change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Slow and gradual? Look at shows from 1969 and one from 1979. Try and tell me that they look more similar than shows from 1999 and 2009. Horns have been taking their cue from the 'trumpet' world since before DCI with the changes made to the horns themselves, just as percussion has been taking it's lead from 'legit' percussion with the changes IT has introduced over time. 69 and 79 arent that drastically different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 But is creativity really what the crowd is there for? Sure we appreciate it when well done and not, as you say, corny or cheesey. But can you imagine the ovation at finals if SCV threw in the bottle dance or BAC went all the way playing Conquest, instead of a two-bar quote? People are aware of our history, they appreciate it, and they don't mind seeing it again. I'm not advocating a full out retro-show, but I guess I'm asking why we always have to have "new" even if it's not as entertaining? Is this more about the members, the crowd, or the egos of the designers? A little Bottle Dance would be nice. A Bottle Dance ever year would not. If nothing else, you have to have something new or the old will certainly become stale. But more than that, everything classic was new at one point. The Santa Clara Vanguard was first formed in 1967; when did they pull out the Bottle Dance for the first time? Boston was formed in 1940, but CorpsReps says they didn't play Conquest for the first time until 1969. Imagine if either of these corps had decided that they were already popular with what they were doing, and had no need to attempt anything new. Those classics you are so fond of would never have happened. Attempting new ideas allows for the possibility that something just as entertaining and classic as the Bottle Dance or Conquest might be created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My mom threw out all my GI Joes, so please don't bring that up again.HH I'm sorry for your loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 For that matter, I see a huge difference between shows from 1979 and 1989. i agree here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Sorry for the lack of clarification. I'm actually speaking/thinking past-tense, specifically of many corps that could not keep up financially with the direction and pace of the evolution of DCI. As you know, once upon a time there used to be strong parade corps circuits, cadet corps circuits, etc. Though many people attribute their demise to societal issues and economics, I argue that the direction of the competitive "activity" created less and less opportunities for those corps to be successful in their own world of drum & bugle corps. Naturally, everyone measured all corps by the standards set in the top DCI corps (sort of like adding a piano/synth to the pit), which created a sense of lesser value in those organizations that could not keep up. In addition, I'm speaking of former competitive circuits (ODCA, DCM, etc.) that could no longer compete with the monopolizing affects of the DCI tour packages offered to "headliner" corps. With the DCI top corps unofficially "defining" what was "in or out," the "trickle down" effects of their decisions led to "trickle out" for many organizations and circuits. All of this ultimately led to DCI as being THE model that most everyone used (and still uses) to define the activity. I know I'm not explaining myself well here. It's tough when trying not to rehash all the rehashed hash of the past 15 years. Oh, that's better. I marched in the Garden State Circuit (pre-DCI), and I taught and judged there from the mid-70's to about 1980, so I understand what you are talking about, at least, even if I disagree with some of your POV. Yes, DCI was the 'gold standard', so to speak, but on a week-in/week-out basis, we in the GSC were not really impacted by them very much. I also fail to see how it's DCI's "fault" if corps in other circuits had problems in recruitment or retention. The flow to the class 'A' corps (as corps like Garfield, St Lucy's, BS, etc...were called back before DCI) from the class 'B' corps like the one I marched with in the GSC was an annual thing. The coming of DCI did not change that. Heck, I remember kids leaving the FIRST GSC corps I joined in 1964 (see sig...I was 10 and in the feeder) to march with St Lucy's. Through the 70's the corps I was associated with, and other GSC corps as well (from talking to staffs around the circuit), had many issues with recruitment/retention. Not so much due to anything DCI-related, but more the economy (remember the huge inflation of the Carter years and the price of oil at that time!) that required HS and college-aged kids to work. Plus...through that era, here in NJ the competitive band scene was expanding...TOB and EMBA were two circuits that served NJ "local" bands by the end of the decade of the 70's. Even though that activity was small as compared to today...it was large by the end of the decade as compared to the beginning. The success DCI was having was really not transferable to the smaller corps, but it was not DCI's fault, IMO. And now we ARE rehashing all of this old stuff again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 . . .all of which was still created using only some horns, drums and flags.Change can occur, even without adding electronics, amps or woodwinds! Who woulda thunk it! illegal use of logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 69 and 79 arent that drastically different Oh my, they are totally different. I can't really believe you can say that. But...you are free to hold that opinion I guess, as wrong as it may be. Wow. (IMO, anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 A little Bottle Dance would be nice. A Bottle Dance ever year would not. If nothing else, you have to have something new or the old will certainly become stale. I agree with this, and I wasn't advocating every year, but answer me this: Did Cadets 2000 look in any way stale to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh my, they are totally different. I can't really believe you can say that. But...you are free to hold that opinion I guess, as wrong as it may be. Wow. (IMO, anyway) and you are free to be wrong like usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts