The Economy Has Tanked; Time To

[bmroth1]

Good points. WGI members groups have a few factors that really work in their favor.

1) Lower overhead. Most programs(even worlds) are in a school (lower/no overhead)

2)equiptment is owned mostly by the schools. Borrowed by the WGI Member (no equipment costs)

3)Local events= little or no travel expense

4)Local events = No food expense

5)Local events = local(parents and friends can attend EVERY event)

6)Local Group= no housing costs

Just to name a few that come to mind

My son marches WGI. We go to every event. The stands are filled with parents and family/friends.

Have his group travel say 300 miles to Chicago or Columbus or Indy and 90% or more of the parents would not go, that would be lost revenew for WGI. Finals and reginal events are the exceptions. We already have our tickets to the Finals in Dayton April 16-18, as do most parents we know. So i can go to one major event out of state, but could not support them if it was every week for 4-6-8 weeks.

You have good points.... too.... for the school operations in particular, but please remember WGI while very immersed in Scholastic competition has a very strong independent operation as well and they do have costs and events that DCI could use to review. My daughter marches in an independent winter guard with some of the costs that your son might not have. While still not nearly as much as a corps. Once again WGI maintains this distinction. If your school offers a program you are suppose to march their first. What is of consequence here is your stating that you could go to one major event out of state but could not support them if it was every week for 4-6-8 weeks. Or Have his group travel say 300 miles and the parents would not go, that would be lost revenew for WGI. Which is a perfect example of why DCI needs to get back to more of a regional structure.

[audiodb]

Except I still do not see how you save cost. What savings are there if, say, Holy Name goes back to Allentown for some period of time? They still have to house and feed their members.

No, they don't "have to" house and feed their members during inactive weekdays. They choose instead not to have any inactive weekdays....and they choose to recruit members from all over the globe who can't just "go home" between weekends (and members from all over the globe choose the corps).

And...are you saying that there would be no shows for some extended period?

Some corps might choose to go home and not do any weekday shows for a particular week, as many corps choose currently. And there generally aren't any weekday shows in California.

[Tom Brace]

Just an update folks....first one to mention it...

Stock Market up almost 400 points today.

Yes, I know it's only one idicator and many people are still out of work, but, hey one can hope can't he.

Afterall, isn't that what this guy ran on?

[CrunchyTenor]

If the age out rule was 24 (which I would not agree with, but was the idea posed at the beginning of the thread), then you could march.

You know, I was bummed when I aged-out, too. I was sorely tempted to march over-age when it was offered, too. But, 1) I'm not one to cheat, and 2) I was aged-out, and that's that.

Why can't people just accept that it's JUNIOR corps, and DCI is over after the summer of your 22 birthday? As it is, that's already an extension of the original DCI rules. Why do you think Muchachos, Crossmen and Bridgemen got DQ'd? If the rules today had been the rules of 1977, Bridgemen would have finished fourth because the overage member would have been eligible.

There are options if you want to continue marching after your age-out. None of them involve DCI junior corps, nor should they.

Regarding the regional/national concept, I'll have to do a little work on that to see how today's model compares to earlier models. Maybe a comparative analysis of 2009, 1999, 1989, 1979? Of course, it would be speculative, but would inspire spirited discussion.

Garry in Vegas

[Jeff Ream]

Most of the corps who were original members of DCI are still members of DCI. Where did they go is a good question.

DCI did not work out well most of the way through the 1990s. Financially, DCI has had their best decade since 2000 even considering the financial downturn. And please argue the attendance figures from the 2007 season. Best finals attendance in better than two decades.

See, this was about rising fuel costs and that does not appear to be the case setting up this summer so far. Fuel has leveled off at comparitively low prices when compared to last year.

As far as charitable contributions and families who may or may not be able to afford to send their kid to march this summer, or cannot attend an event. The same phenomenon would happen if it was a local, regional or national show. Attendance would be down and most likely will be down this summer. There may be fewer members on the field in some corps this summer.

This is a recessionary problem and few if any not-for-profit organizations flourish during a recession. Most are hit worse than their for profit brethren.

So, shorten the season...perhaps that would be a viable option. But, how, in a country spread 3000 miles from East to West, do you construct a local/regional schedule that is different than the one that's out there today?

West coast corps do west coast shows at the beginning of the year.

Midwest corps do midwest shows at the beginning of the year.

East coast corps do east coast shows at the beginning of the year.

Just like they always did. It's regional competition for the most part at the beginning of the year.

Then, comes the DCI season...second week of July time...for a month, like it pretty much has always been...corps travel to large regional competitions...Atlanta, San Antonio, Allentown, etc.

I would love to see a better model than this. Please...enlighten me.

ok, remind me...who were the original 13?

Anaheim Kingsmen...non competitive

Argonne Rebels,...gone

Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights, non competitive

Blue Rock, gone

Blue Stars,

Boston Crusaders,

Cavaliers,

De La Salle Oaklands,...gone

Garfield Cadets,

Madison Scouts,

Santa Clara Vanguard,

Troopers

27th Lancers. gone

you win on a slim majority. 7 of the original 13 are still here, and one almost left us just 3 years ago. not a good stat to use for an argument tho

[gbell211]

Life isn't always fair. If due to the economy Person A can't afford to march and age out, I'm sorry but THAT is a life lesson. Changing the age-out age isn't going to do anything for Person A, not in the long term. We can't always change the rules because things didn't go as planned.

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if that is the way the world worked. It's doesn't. We deal with the hand we're dealt. End of story.

Good post.

[MikeD]

Whats funny (and sad) about that is the way were going perhaps we will end up in a gym....they already have the SDA starting up. If people can't afford to march in the 150 member extravaganza perhaps that will be as good of alternative as DCA. I'll be interested to see where that goes.

FWIW...I judged drum corps shows in gyms back in the late 70's. Various small corps would host these all day events...I&E in the morning, a corps show in the afternoon, and then a winter gard show in the evening.

And yes Tom perhaps it's time to start looking outside of the box a little bit. WGI while very immersed in Scholastic competition has a very strong independent operation as well even if it didn't show well at Phoenix or is as large as the scholastic operations. The main reason for that is because how they are set up. If your school offers a program you are suppose to march their first. So you cant use that as a reason to ignore looking at their operations. If Drum Corps is not willing to look outside of itself to other organizations be it WGI or professional sports for a little help it would be a shame but not all that surprising. It seems to be the MO lately.

I'm not sure it's the "main reason". Independent guards that WERE the base of the winter guard activity 30+ years ago, at least in my area, died off pretty much the same as the small local drum corps. Just as competitive MB grew to take the place of the small independent corps, scholastic winter guards expanded to take the place of many of the independent guards.

When I marched in a small GSC corps (see sig), we used our corps drummers as the "music" for the winter guard, me being one of them...this was the winter of 67-68 and 68-69. I can't recall a single scholastic-based guard at the shows we attended, and I am sure that there was no scholastic division. By a decade later, as band director I had a scholastic winter guard, and by then there were independent and scholastic divisions, because there were so many scholastic guards joining that same winter guard circuit.

[Matt_S]

No, they don't "have to" house and feed their members during inactive weekdays. They choose instead not to have any inactive weekdays....and they choose to recruit members from all over the globe who can't just "go home" between weekends (and members from all over the globe choose the corps).

Some corps might choose to go home and not do any weekday shows for a particular week, as many corps choose currently. And there generally aren't any weekday shows in California.

Interesting to me that you bring up the matter of choice, because I think that's key to the whole discussion. Honestly, I don't quite understand the debate over regional vs. national touring, because right now in DCI we already have both at the same time. A corps with resources like The Cadets has the choice to tour as much as they are able, while a corps like Pacific Crest or the Academy has the choice to stay local while they build their resources. Even an original member of DCI like the Blue Stars has the choice to rebuild in Open Class before returning to a more aggressive tour in World Class. Saying that DCI corps should only tour regionally is just as silly as saying that all corps should tour nationally. Every corps is in a different situation, and it's up to the leadership of that corps to choose which path is right for them. If DCI has a role to play in this, its in helping corps to make sound decisions. I believe they already offer something like this, but classes and seminars, tools to help directors who likely don't have a business background, seem like a great way to help both new and existing corps remain on the field.

[Mr. D. from da 313]

You have good points.... too.... for the school operations in particular, but please remember WGI while very immersed in Scholastic competition has a very strong independent operation as well and they do have costs and events that DCI could use to review. My daughter marches in an independent winter guard with some of the costs that your son might not have. While still not nearly as much as a corps. Once again WGI maintains this distinction. If your school offers a program you are suppose to march their first. What is of consequence here is your stating that you could go to one major event out of state but could not support them if it was every week for 4-6-8 weeks. Or Have his group travel say 300 miles and the parents would not go, that would be lost revenew for WGI. Which is a perfect example of why DCI needs to get back to more of a regional structure.

In metro Detroit, even the Independents have a school backing them. Every Independent practaces at a school and uses the schools equipment. My son marches Farmington United, they are Ind. A, last year he marched Per. Ind. world. Both were based at schools, used the schools equipment, even list the schools as sponcers. all the other Indy's are the same.

As far as costs, they are as follows. $700.00 total this year for everything. $900.00 last year, plus some added expenses.

I figure this years $700.00 to be about 25% the cost of marching DCI. DCi costs 1800 to 2400 just to march, add in all the assorted misc. costs and your looking at 2500 to over 3000. and thats around 4x the 700.00 I spend for WGI.0

I will say this. It is worth EVERY penny we spend for WGI. The cost of $700.00 is broken down into 6 months, so we can handle that. But the payback for us and our son is un measurable.

[MikeD]

In metro Detroit, even the Independents have a school backing them.

Our school's winter guard is really an independent guard in the MAIN circuit here in NJ. A few reasons...there is no official school activity for "winter guard", hence no stipend for an advisor or school sponsorship for travelling. Plus, we have two HS in town, and we do open it up to interested members from the other HS. Our guard is actually sponsored by the local recreation department.