tell me if I'm wrong and why

[84skyrydr]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

[jjeffeory]

There are also so many more "distractions" today. Work, summer school, year round school. Lots of other distractions.

[bananaboyz]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

I am sure many think of it - very valid points in all. Today's kids really put on great shows but the stress is greater, and the finals have become a version of the NHL.

[bert0709]

well from what i've been told there are actually alot more people that got to drum corps shows now than they did back in the 80

s and 90's. or so i've been told from people that have marched in those era's. As for people not marching because they get burnt out i don't think it's true. don't get me wrong drill is very hard but a few weeks after being home im sure they want to get back on the field. The main reason alot of people don't march year after year is because tour fee's are alot higher now than they were then. I know in the 90's tour fee's for drum corps were about 600 - 800 from what i've been told. now they've doubled or tripled, depends on the corp you're marching. think about it, let's just say your tour fee's are 2,100 plus airline tickets it'll come out to roughly 3,500 maybe more? depending where you're flying from. that's ALOT of money. alot of kids can't afford it. but one thing i do agree with is that some shows aretoo complex to understand that alot of people don't enjoy the music that the members are playing. but thats just my 2 cents.

[84skyrydr]

well from what i've been told there are actually alot more people that got to drum corps shows now than they did back in the 80

s and 90's. or so i've been told from people that have marched in those era's. As for people not marching because they get burnt out i don't think it's true. don't get me wrong drill is very hard but a few weeks after being home im sure they want to get back on the field. The main reason alot of people don't march year after year is because tour fee's are alot higher now than they were then. I know in the 90's tour fee's for drum corps were about 600 - 800 from what i've been told. now they've doubled or tripled, depends on the corp you're marching. think about it, let's just say your tour fee's are 2,100 plus airline tickets it'll come out to roughly 3,500 maybe more? depending where you're flying from. that's ALOT of money. alot of kids can't afford it. but one thing i do agree with is that some shows aretoo complex to understand that alot of people don't enjoy the music that the members are playing. but thats just my 2 cents.

Very valid points. That is what I am looking for. Just my experience in shows, ( and I averaged 20 per year ) , the crowds have not been bigger, except at the regional shows. Tour fees are higher, and in the old days, you didn't need a plane ticket to get to the corp that was in your hometown.

[liebot]

The big battle over the centuries has seemingly been whether old style drum corps was better than new, and why are corps numbers declining. Here is my hypothesis: Older shows drill and music was much easier and was about the crowds entertainment. Todays shows are so difficult and complex, most kids burn out after one summer and crowds are left scratching their heads as to what it was they just saw. Don't you think then that the difficulty being what it is, causes kids to march less than they would have in the old days, because they aren't beat to death running and playing impossible pieces of music? Therefore the corps numbers decline and crowds decline due to the same decline in membership. Most crowds are made up of drum corps alumni and parents and family. If there are less and less of each, drum corps start disappearing. What does anyone think of this ?

The number of corps is declining because A. it is becoming more difficult (financially) to keep a corps in the black. . . New instruments, new flags, coach buses, the rising cost of gas have increased the cost of running a corps. Add to that B. that there's a general attitude that corps outside of the top 8 don't matter, and it becomes difficult to keep a "lower-tier" corps at a functioning level. I think the financial difficulty arises from this idea that you have to - if not be part of the top 8 - act like and emulate the top 8. That's why corps buy new Bb horns every couple of years, get fancy new uniforms, buy top of the line silks, go on national tours (people wonder why there are no corps left and then in the next sentence complain when a corps like Pac Crest decides to do a regional tour), buy amplifiers, or (now) buy keyboards.

The fact is that you have to be like the top 8 to be taken seriously. DCI has spent so much time marketing their top corps that (in the eyes of Joe Bando) marching somewhere outside them isn't really worth it. So we have two problems: local "lower-tier" corps are left scrambling for members; as a result they start to emulate the top corps, often pushing themselves beyond what's financial prudent or responsible. This decreases their long-term viability as a corps and more corps disappear. As a corollary, as more lower-tier corps disappear the prestige of placing in the top-17 or top-12 decreases, meaning these corps are even less attractive to potential members. Additionally, with DCP and other internet sources becoming the main source for drum corps fans and potential members, these lower corps get their dirty laundry aired on a regular basis. If their first camp has low audition numbers, or some staff member moves to a higher corps, or they had trouble getting down the road the past couple of years, it is talked about on DCP and known by the general populace. So a guy who may have been interested in joining corps XYZ may look on here and find out they've had problems in the past or some staff member has moved to higher-placing corps ABC. . . why march XYZ when you can go to corps ABC???

Well, you might march XYZ if it's closer and costs less, but this leads to another point. . . as the price of corps increases (as a result of unhealthy spending habits linked to what I mentioned before), the number of "less well off" people that can afford to do it decreases. Drum corps is increasingly becoming an activity for middle class to upper-middle class individuals. Obviously this economic year kind of throws a wrench in this argument, but if we have wealthier people marching in corps we have people who can afford to shell out $250 for a plane ticket to Rosemont or Canton or YEA!, Pennsylvania or some other place. As the socioeconomic class of potential members increases, the likelihood of them marching in the corps down the street decreases. So corps XYZ, which in the past had counted on a local membership base to forgo marching corps ABC because it's too far away and too expensive, now has less members because the type of people that are interested can afford to travel further.

Basically, I don't think modern show design has anything to do with it. Blame it on the Troopers. They started the whole national tour thing. It's their fault. That's reasonable. Right?

Edit: Bert makes an interesting point. Even if the people aren't inherently wealthier, they may have to save up money to march (at most) one or two years of corps. Given that their drum corps experience is going to be limited, they might be less likely to spend these few years at a lower-prestige, lower-placing corps. While, obviously, they would have to save up more money to travel further to march in a higher-prestige corps, this type of behavior seems more likely considering (as a result of rising costs) they are forced to do some long-term saving anyway. Why not save a little bit more to get a "better" experience? I think that might be some of the logic going on here.

Edited April 14, 2009 by TSRTS13

[corps-mudgeon]

the rising cost of gas have increased the cost of running a corps.

There are a lot of opinions as to the reason for the loss of drum corps and probably nearly all of them have some truth to them. FWIW, cost of gas is probably one of the lesser factors, and I'm only mentioning it because it's brought up so often. With last year as an exception, most of the '90s and '00s have enjoyed lower average fuel prices than the highest prices of the '70s after inflation is taken into account. And of course, the '70s was the time frame when national touring came into its own.

If cost of running a corps is the cause of corps folding, I'd suggest that the cost of staff--creative and technical--has probably been the fastest growing expense. Good people are hard to find and corps are forced to pay to keep them. Not that you'll get rich as a staff member, but doubling a low salary doubles salary expenses. Not to mention the expense of transporting them to and from camps. And it's probably safe to say that the quality of your staff is the greatest single determining factor in your ranking, which makes finding them and keeping them that much more important.

In comparison to the overall budget of most corps, the cost of amplifiers, speakers, portable power supplies, and now keyboards is not huge, but as nearly all corps are operating close to the margin, they certainly are an expense that could make the difference between operating in the black or operating in the red. And may have an impact on the ability to pay for other marginal expenses such as uniform cleaning and food.

[GGarrett]

1.) Old school drum corps was "better" for most of us that marched it because that's what we did. And we're proud of it. There is no question that what corps do today just blows away any drill or complexity that we ever had in the 70's and early 80's when I marched, and I have nothing but respect for the incredible talent the corps have today. We did indeed do what pleased the crowds back then... and it pleased us to do that. Watching the entire stands in front of you go crazy or pump their fists at you as you hit a push or just wailed was just awesome.

2.) Kids do indeed have far more things at their disposal now than we did in the less hi tech days of no cell phones, no internet, no gamers, and less stress than what kids have put on them now. Giving your whole summer to drum corps was a no brainer back then... a chance to go all over the country and jam and play my drum everyday, make great friends all over the place, have crowds go crazy for you everywhere, and all the while building chops that were outrageous? Hell yeah... I'll go!

3.) Many composers of great music now want a huge amount of $$$ for their music to be played. And if it's not that, then it's that the old pieces that ARE most popular with crowds just don't have the difficulty to hold up to the top contenders complexities anymore.

[Lancerlady]

I agree with Gene. I do say that looking back at some DVD's from the 70's I can see why some kids today would not be that blown away by the playing, but it would be nice if they would try to understand that for the history of that time, the complexity of playing the arrangements on those horns was very hard.

I marched at the time when drill was beginning to kick in to full force, mid 80's. I didn't get burnt out. I marched for 5 summers and am glad I did it.

Tours were longer back then too, and it seems that today's kids have the opportunity of having sponsorships. I don't know if that was available in my time, but I had to work part time in the off season to get my money to fly up to march and then when I moved in I would work part time to get more money for tour while practicing grueling hours. It sure made me respect and appreciate why I did what I did more then to just have it handed to me. It also taught me self discipline.

I was a music major and learned so much in drum corps, more then just the difficult arrangements.

Today's drill is more complex then what we did and I respect the drill, but the arrangements of yesterday are more musical and difficult then some of the music we hear today.

I wonder if a drum corps today could do an arrangement of 27's niner two while doing the drill of today? (Something to think about).

Kids today are so blessed in that they don't have the added stress of having to push buses on tour and they have air conditioner and blow up matttresses, cell phones, and lap tops...etc...

[Piper]

Cost is definately a factor. Now I'm going back quite a few decades so please bear with me. In the early 60's most corps feilded 3 snares, 3 tenors (all single) a couple of "straight" bass drums and a pair of cymbals. A hornline was considered "filled out" when they reached 36 (that was the magic number back then). You maybe had 8 to 12 flags plus an honor guard, and the membership and most shows were fairly local. There were usually only 3 to 4 instructors - brass, perc, drill and sometimes guard. Contrast that with today. A battery of 9 would be considered puny and beneath recognition. Add the pit to the perc brethren and throw in a brass line of 70 to 80 and a guard that looks like it could have fought with Julius Caesar. Then factor in instructional staffs that can rival the size of a small business and do the math. I'm not debating the pros and cons, I'm just saying that's the way it is today.