danguernsey Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'll echo everything Dan G. said. We were on a mission and our attitude was that we were not going to be denied. We were so close to our end game at CYO, we could taste it. Everyone of us knew that we had to exercise the demons of 74' and there was NO letting up! But I distinctly remember that there was a degree of trepidation before taking the field at CYO. We hadn't seen Hawthorne yet, and it was so late in the season. All I can remember were stories floating around of them being portrayed as larger then life world beaters. Well, I recall that the fact of us not seeing Hawthorne yet actually caused us to step it up a few more notches, and even though nobody has mentioned it here, we put on a phenomenal performance at CYO! All I know is that the end result of us handily beating Hawthorne was both a sigh of relief and a huge confidence booster. Going into DCI week, there was a look in everyone's eye's that "this was it"! Sure, there was some fun, but it was all business. And as I recall, sure, we respected everyone and didn't take anyone for granted, but there remained only one corps that was at the top of our, "get that monkey off of our backs" concern list, and that was SCV. Yep, that pretty much sums up our attitude from CYO to DCI finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I WAS TOLD TO ASK......HERSHEY 1975......WASNT THAT THE DAY AFTER DCI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I dont think this thread was started to take anything away from Madison. If it came across from me that way I'm sorry Madison has and even now has been 1 of my favorite corps. MAdison won fair and square I believe but the facts around what happened to Hawthorne are as shady as having anyone overage as many did that year. I also find it funny that a corps that turned them in also had overage the year before by their own omission. MAybe a better question would be how come all these other corps werent called out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumss Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I WAS TOLD TO ASK......HERSHEY 1975......WASNT THAT THE DAY AFTER DCI Hershey was in fact the day after DCI nationals, but it was measured by audience applause, rather than judges. Madison still won that show too, but I recall that there was supposedly a great deal of anticipation as to whether or not we (Muchachos) would show up to perform.... well we did, and there was a loud buzz from the stands when our busses pulled into the parking lot. Since it wasn't a DCI sanctioned show, we marched everyone that day. We played well as I recall, since right or wrong we had something to prove. We came in second on the "clap meter" (sound dirty doesn't it?) ... anyway, we showed up to a few boos, that turned quickly into loud cheers. There were some stories floating around that this performance was video-taped by a local TV station or something like that, but I have not seen it if it does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plankton Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I dont think this thread was started to take anything away from Madison. If it came across from me that way I'm sorry Madison has and even now has been 1 of my favorite corps. MAdison won fair and square I believe but the facts around what happened to Hawthorne are as shady as having anyone overage as many did that year. I also find it funny that a corps that turned them in also had overage the year before by their own omission. MAybe a better question would be how come all these other corps werent called out. The Scouts were checked early and often during the '75 season. The ages of all members were verified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) We came in second on the "clap meter" (sound dirty doesn't it?) ... That was only after they changed the name from the Chancre-ometer.... There is someone on eBay selling a DVD that includes press box camera footage of most of Muchachos prelims show from Philly in 75. It's black and white and mono, and the angle is off to one side, but the video quality is ok for what it is and at least it's better than nothing. The DVD also includes the badly damaged footage from M's show at Ithaca prelims in '74; the footage was unsalvageable for what DCI needed to offer in the Legacy Series, but it's the whole show, and helps fill in the blanks of what Muchachos were doing in that period of time. Edited July 22, 2009 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc oldtimer Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Who are you referring to? The entire corps? That is bullsh*t. If I had known I was marching with an overage member, I would have led a revolt. I challenge you - "they" - the entire corps - did NOT know they had ringers. Yep, you're right. I used "they" only to keep my post as short as possible. What I meant by "they" are the members of management who allowed this to happen, created the fraudulant birth certificates and didn't even attempt rectify the situation by continuing to march them out there even though they knew some sh** was coming down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Hershey was in fact the day after DCI nationals, but it was measured by audience applause, rather than judges. Madison still won that show too, but I recall that there was supposedly a great deal of anticipation as to whether or not we (Muchachos) would show up to perform.... well we did, and there was a loud buzz from the stands when our busses pulled into the parking lot.Since it wasn't a DCI sanctioned show, we marched everyone that day. We played well as I recall, since right or wrong we had something to prove. We came in second on the "clap meter" (sound dirty doesn't it?) ... anyway, we showed up to a few boos, that turned quickly into loud cheers. There were some stories floating around that this performance was video-taped by a local TV station or something like that, but I have not seen it if it does exist. Wasn't taped that I'm aware of. And lot of us (Westshoremen - show hosts) were sitting in the pressbox watching the corps. If anyone was taping from there, the sound had to have been horrible form us talking and yelling. The results of the "clap meter" were tabulated by a CPA. And the CPA was named Craig and he marched Mello in the corps. Just remembered. Scouts were handed the trophey by Westshores long time Quartermaster as the show was dedicated to him. He was wearing his favorite cap when he gave the trophey. It was blue and said "TROOPERS" on it. Show was billed as "Last chance for the corps to do their show without worrying about being judged". Bull#### it was a last chance for gas money on the way home. And the money the hosts took in sure helped get rid of some of our red ink...... Edited July 31, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 From Soundmachine, 9/5/07:I just spoke with Don Warren and asked him for the "facts" as best he could recall. He told me much the same as Bob Briske, the contest direct that night, had stated when I researched the "facts" several years ago. Many corps directors were tired of the overage members in corps back then. I personally knew of quite a few overage members in corps I competed against (they were good friends of mine, but their corps weren't competitive and I felt it was their conscience, not mine). In fact, I marched with an overage member in the Cavaliers in 1973 (for a few shows until we found out and asked him to leave). Several directors and Don Pesceone had decided that winter to make sure to clean up the overage issue. Dave Kampschorer from Blue Stars, Jim Jones from Troopers, Bill Howard from Madison, and others were determined to work with DCI to try to put an end to it. Tom Remo joined the Cavaliers in 1975 as a tympani. He had marched with Blessed Sacrament the year or two before. He was personally aware of many overage members in the Muchachos. He identified the rototom player as being one he was dead certain could be proven overage. Don Warren and several other directors and the DCI leadership were made aware of the situation. They decided to disqualify Muchachos due to the gross neglect of supervision (22 Muchachos were found to have had false birth certificates, all notarized by the same person in N.J. - instead of being notarized in their individual hometowns and is normally the case). Don Pesceone verified this. It wasn't because Muchachos had ONE overage member. There were probably a half dozen corps that year in that situation. It was the complete disregard for the rules by Muchachos that caused their disqualification. Don Warren was not the one who pulled the overage member out of the line. He told me that he was not allowed to do so since he was not technically the Cavaliers corps director. He was the president. The corps director that year was Danny Heeres. Per DCI rules at the time, the corps director who was accusing had to be present with Don Pesceone when the identification was made. Thus, Don Pesceone pulled the overage member from the line with Danny Heeres standing next to him. The member admitted he was overage. DCI had to wait until after the corps had competed in prelims in order for the disqualification to be valid. If they had pulled him before hand, they could not have disqualified the whole corps. And again, because they knew of so many overage members they wanted to punish the organization, not just the one overage member. They did NOT want to ruin the lives of the many kids in the corps who had nothing to do with this, but it was apparent to DCI that the Muchachos management was intentionally disregarding the rules. The Cavaliers did not have a grudge against the Muchachos or any other east coast corps. It had nothing to do with the Muchachos not buying into DCI financial or touring committment. Any one of several corps would have turned in any one of several other corps if they had found the same egregious evidence of foul play. Cavaliers just happened to be the corps with the proof, and the Muchachos just happened to be the corps most abusing the rules. No conspiracy theory at work. Only good folks wanting everyone to play by the rules - and not to completely flaunt them with disrespect. IMHO, it is virtually impossible to state that the Muchachos management was unaware of the fact that they had at least several overage members. And it surely was not the first year they did it. I stood next to the Muchachos at retreat during my ageout year at Finals in 1974. I can tell you that they had overage members. Geez . . . not even remotely discreet about it! Get serious. The Cavaliers were also not trying to get Muchachos disqualified for any specific competitive reasons. We were only a middle of the road Finalist back then. We weren't competitive with Muchachos in the least. Maybe we would have been had they not had so many overage members, but we didn't disqualify them so we could move up one place. Who cares. Anyway, the score sheets were definitely NEVER totaled. The judges did NOT get togehter and compare notes to come up with a total score. I personally asked Don Angelica about this before he died and he said he knew nothing of that. He was one of the top judges back then and the longtime Judges Coordinator for DCI. After Don Pesceone met with the DCI directors with the evidence he asked them what he should do with the untabulated sheets. He was told to destroy them. He did so, without ever adding up the score. End of story - if you choose to believe the people who were actually involved in a position of knowledge and authority. Maybe it is time for the management team of the Muchachos to discuss publicly if they knew of their many overage members. They are as much to blame as any of the overage kids in the corps. I find it hard to believe they did not know. Paul Milano Maybe we could get a professional hypnotist to hypnotize Don Pesceone to go back to that fateful day and visualize the scores on the individual sheets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass5 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hershey was in fact the day after DCI nationals, but it was measured by audience applause, rather than judges. Madison still won that show too, but I recall that there was supposedly a great deal of anticipation as to whether or not we (Muchachos) would show up to perform.... well we did, and there was a loud buzz from the stands when our busses pulled into the parking lot.Since it wasn't a DCI sanctioned show, we marched everyone that day. We played well as I recall, since right or wrong we had something to prove. We came in second on the "clap meter" (sound dirty doesn't it?) ... anyway, we showed up to a few boos, that turned quickly into loud cheers. There were some stories floating around that this performance was video-taped by a local TV station or something like that, but I have not seen it if it does exist. The only thing I recall from the Hershey show in 1975 is that it ranks way up there on the "worst hangover of my life" chart. Kneeling down in front of the snare line to have them smash my cymbals as hard as they could at ear level was my punishment for over indulging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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