Does The Score Really Matter To The Performer?

[DcFr3aK]

Tell ya what, I'll agree with you. Mostly.

From move in up until the Regionals, I didn't have the benefit of meeting head to head with who I considered "our competition" in 1990. Coming in 3rd at Birmingham kinda woke up the monster .. and the monster was ###### and hungry the next day ... and the next .. and the next.

1989 was a far different story. Every night you were up against Cavies, Phantom, Star ..... heck yeah we paid attention. You definitely notice the spreads when you're in full retreat hearing your corps name being announced in 3rd or 2nd place. The difference is, how does that affect your "Productive Rehearsal" the next day. Does it put a little fire in your pants? Are you a little ticked because you know you have the talent and show to be ahead of "that corps"? At some point (if you're behind), the ENTIRE corps has to step up the level of intensity, focus, drive and passion to be better ... EVERY TIME.

Now some might say, that's how it should be already and regardless of what you scored the night before. Sorry, that goes against human nature. If you're doing business as usual and being productive, thinking you're doing everything right and then get your ### kicked ... yeah you notice. And you step it up.

Numbers always matter, but they don't matter as much when you believe that your product, your corps and staff have a 100% bulletproof gameplan to end up where you belong on Saturday night.

If you're there to have a good time and enjoy the experience of drumcorps .... numbers don't ever matter really. --- NEVER

If you're there to be a monster and as perfect as possible, you expect the same from the people around you then, numbers matter more when they aren't jibing with your expectations on a day to day basis. --- DAILY

If you're there for a little bit of both ... that just means you're willing to use the excuse that numbers don't matter when things don't work out the way you want them to. But only when the season is over. --- AFTER FINALS

Corps that are in the top 7 these days don't get that interaction anymore. I remember in 2001-2002 we did retreat, and at that time in my marching career, the numbers had a different affect on me. But my final year of marching, heck, even in 2007, we didn't really have full corps retreat, just Champions Fanfare or whatever the piece was called. Most kids sit by their trucks and go visit family, friends who came to see them, visit with friends they are competing against etc.

Scores are looked at, and are important to some people, but the majority (from my perspective-inside and out of the activity) of the marching community don't worry about scores! PERFORM THE HELL OUT OF YOUR SHOW! Then if you did it collectively as a corps, you'll get the placement and score! But how I was taught was not to dwell on it! Enjoy the time you have, it's short!

[AlexL]

Scores night to night are fun to track, fun to give some hype or motivation. At the end though, most place more value in having a great show first from their and their staff's perspective, as they know that those things are the things that will eventually result in a higher placement at the only score that matters. Finals.

[jpaul]

As the parent of a current corps member, I’ve witnessed the frustration because of her corps not being able to “beat” the competition night after night. It didn’t matter whether her corps was fighting at the bottom of the rankings or in the top twelve; the perception of “slotting” has done more to create the idea that it doesn’t matter who does what because the finish will be similar year after year. I’m not sure the problem is as much the score itself as much as the lack of specific concrete reasons for those scores.

I would suggest that your daughter's frustration (and that of anyone else who chooses that outlook) is self-imposed. Scores and rankings are the collective opinions of a panel of judges. That's it. Of course it's more fun to "win" than not (however you define winning). But if you allow your self-worth and motivation to be determined by outside factors, over which you have NO control, then you're asking for trouble. The best reward is in the joy of the experience itself, not in someone else's response to your efforts.

[MelloMike]

It's kind of a balance in my opinion. My first season I was all about the fun and atmosphere of the activity, being on a bus all summer with friends that you make for life and such. After 2 years of last place I got that urge to do better, sure it's about making the show better but it's natural to want to compete and the scores are how you do it. If you score higher than the corps you intend to beat, it's a successful night. A score may not be remembered 15 years from now but you'll remember friends and you'll probably remember where you placed.

[jpaul]

After 2 years of last place I got that urge to do better . . .

I'd be willing to bet that the "urge" was more to challenge yourself and experience a new level of achievement than it was to beat someone else.

[acolli17]

I certainly agree on the whole competition in schools thing. They're basically teaching the kids to be pansies nowadays, getting rid of all games in which there is any sort of contact that might "hurt" the poor kids, and emphasizing games in which there are no winners.

However, being that drum corps is a judged activity, it is my opinion that nightly scores don't play as big of a role. When I marched there were a lot of nights where collectively we thought we did really well, but that wasn't reflected in the score. Some nights we thought we were downright terrible, but our score jumped anyways. I think a corps opinion is ultimately more important than that of the judges panel. Hence, the scores shouldn't really matter as much to a performer.

I remember feeling exactly that same way. We always just said that even though we were feeling, or not feeling it that night, a larger portion of the corps did have a better night. But I do remember a show that was AWESOME and we felt we should have scored higher. But that was at the first regional, so...

Edited July 6, 2009 by acolli17

[tkelly21]

This thread needs more response from people who are winning or have won shows. All I hear is rationalization here. What does it feel like when you have the highest score. How does that make you feel about the hours you spend rehearsing, your staff and instructors, your fellow corps members? Does it make the bond even greater with these people? Is the sense of accomplishment greater? The answer is YES.

I was in Santa Clara from the beginning. Why did it become even more fun when we began winning shows and championships?

You always have a sense of accomplishment and comraderie, but that sense is even greater when the final accomplishment is to achieve the ultimate goal. When you keep score that goal becomes the highest score, to perfect that score. To accept otherwise is to just accept being mediocre.

I have tasted last place and first place in my life, in and out of drum corp. First place always felt better. Don't be afraid to put pressure on yourself, your fellow corps members, and your staff to help you experience that. It is not a sin to win!

Edited July 6, 2009 by tkelly21

[DcFr3aK]

This thread needs more response from people who are winning or have won shows. All I hear is rationalization here. What does it feel like when you have the highest score. How does that make you feel about the hours you spend rehearsing, your staff and instructors, your fellow corps members? Does it make the bond even greater with these people? Is the sense of accomplishment greater? The answer is YES.

I was in Santa Clara from the beginning. Why did it become even more fun when we began winning shows and championships?

You always have a sense of accomplishment and comraderie, but that sense is even greater when the final accomplishment is to achieve the ultimate goal. When you keep score that goal becomes the highest score, to perfect that score. To accept otherwise is to just accept being mediocre.

I have tasted last place and first place in my life, in and out of drum corp. First place always felt better. Don't be afraid to put pressure on yourself, your fellow corps members, and your staff to help you experience that. It is not a sin to win!

Okay, I'm not going to lie...when we beat Cadets last year for the first time in Crown's history, we were partying like no ones business! Of course it feels great to win, but the original post was not placement, it was scores. Of course people celebrate victory and shrug when they lose, but scores....meh. I don't remember what we got in Orlando, but we remember the feeling we had after performing, and that's what I'll remember, not the scores.

[CuriousMe]

This thread needs more response from people who are winning or have won shows. All I hear is rationalization here. What does it feel like when you have the highest score. How does that make you feel about the hours you spend rehearsing, your staff and instructors, your fellow corps members? Does it make the bond even greater with these people? Is the sense of accomplishment greater? The answer is YES.

I was in Santa Clara from the beginning. Why did it become even more fun when we began winning shows and championships?

You always have a sense of accomplishment and comraderie, but that sense is even greater when the final accomplishment is to achieve the ultimate goal. When you keep score that goal becomes the highest score, to perfect that score. To accept otherwise is to just accept being mediocre.

I have tasted last place and first place in my life, in and out of drum corp. First place always felt better. Don't be afraid to put pressure on yourself, your fellow corps members, and your staff to help you experience that. It is not a sin to win!

I've been on both ends of the spectrum, I've been in corps' that won and I've not come close to making finals, never mind winning. I will say that scores are far more important to me now then they ever were before. I honestly didn't know my scores on any given night....still don't know the scores of the years I marched that we won or lost.

I was thinking about my and our performance, not what the 8 folks in green shirts thought of it.

That bonding you're talking about....the pride in accomplishment after hours of work....that came from my performance, not from hearing the opinions of 8 folks in green. Now, was it nice when the 8 folks said we won....of course...but not the point of my summer.

Now, I was competing....but I was competing against the only person I had any control over ...me, and I was getting my feedback from the folks who wrote the show.

Now, I'm not a fan of this whole concept that's sprung up where kids never lose. I think losing is the only way you figure out what you need to do to succeed. One of the most important things I learned in drum corps was the value of being told when you suck....how else do you get better? But since drum corps is judged and not scored....I never felt like the judge's opinions had enough weight for me to base my summer on.

Of course winning was great, but it's not close to why I marched and it's really not what I was focusing on. One of my favorite years was '89 and while I confess that I don't remember what place we came in, I know it wasn't first

Edited July 6, 2009 by CuriousMe

[BRASSO]

I would really love to know when exactly this whole idea of "winning isn't important... it's the taking part that matters most" mentality started. Of course scores matter. It is a COMPETITIVE activity. Back in my day, if we got an 87.5 and VK got an 87.6, I wanted to go chew on live wasps! They (VK) were just the same. Competition is healthy, and in life we have winners and we have losers. That's just the facts. Tell me the scores don't matter when Santa Clara get's their butts kicked by Pioneer because it's "just a number" after all!

I agree. Competition is what drives creativity, excellence, and makes the system of high quality advance. Wherever there is the absence of competition, ultimately complaceny sets in, and the ineviteable consequence of that is mediocrity, inefficiencies, lack of creativity, and essentially a lack of advancement for all.

That said, if a performer gives 110% in an effort to win, lays it all out on the field if you will, but comes up short, they can tip their cap to the winner and stand tall. Sometimes the outcome is simply beyond their control ( especially in a subjective judged competition like Drum Corps.) And we should not lose sight of this either in my opinion.

Edited July 6, 2009 by BRASSO