chris ncsu Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fair enough, they arent as clean as you would expect a champion to be, but im not sure too many champions have played shows with the demand combination from music, to visual. Many have have one or the other, but nothing this intensely difficult. Note I didnt say that noone had created the demand you see in this years Crown's show but it is hard to remember too many. Really? Not a slam on Crown, but really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fair enough, they arent as clean as you would expect a champion to be, but im not sure too many champions have played shows with the demand combination from music, to visual. Many have have one or the other, but nothing this intensely difficult. break out the videos. drum corps existed before 2008. see, specifically: cadets 2005 cadets 2000 cavaliers 2000 cavaliers 2002 cadets 1998 cadets 1993 blue devils 1994 star 1991 cadets 1990 cadets 1987 i know you love your team, but you're biting off more here than you want to chew. crown doesn't have *it*, nor are they doing anything particularly groundbreaking, demandwise. If you want to select the smaller shows with less comparison then fine but it probably is less likely that those results pan out on the big stage consistently. no, it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fair enough, they arent as clean as you would expect a champion to be, but im not sure too many champions have played shows with the demand combination from music, to visual. Many have have one or the other, but nothing this intensely difficult. Note I didnt say that noone had created the demand you see in this years Crown's show but it is hard to remember too many. But is also no where near Champ level clean. And if they end up in 4th place or so in Indy because they have a super demanding show that's not as clean as the corps above them, then design doesn't matter. SCV can sneak up on them in the end with a squeaky clean performance, and in the end a super demanding show doesn't matter if it's not as clean as the other Top 3/4 corps it doesn't matter (in a competitive sense at least). Again, people are always talking about demand this and demand this, but it's all about effect and performance. Demand is A factor in the numbers, but it's not the end-all/be-all. If Crown can't even begin to execute close to Blue Devil's, or even Cavaliers, then it doesn't matte that their show has more demand than everyone else. While I really like Crown's show, I have a feeling that their design will fall short of Top 2, and possibly even Top 3. Maybe they'll prove me wrong (I'd love to see someone new in Top 3), but I just have this feeling that their show is ALMOST Top 2/3 caliber, but a little out of reach of the members. Prove me wrong Crown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Again, people are always talking about demand this and demand this, but it's all about effect and performance. Someone please get this emblazoned across the top of the Forum page for the next couple of weeks. Ironically (for those who pound on the "demand" button), Crown's show is very effective in some of the segments than are inarguably the least demanding. The Ministry of Silly Walks bit is fun, but not hard. Being physically still for a restatement of the "Somewhere" theme is effective, but not hard. Crown's staff has obviously figured out that effectiveness is what it is, and there's no point going harder just for the sake of being harder. Edited July 27, 2009 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarolina Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 break out the videos. drum corps existed before 2008.see, specifically: cadets 2005 cadets 2000 cavaliers 2000 cavaliers 2002 cadets 1998 cadets 1993 blue devils 1994 star 1991 cadets 1990 cadets 1987 i know you love your team, but you're biting off more here than you want to chew. crown doesn't have *it*, nor are they doing anything particularly groundbreaking, demandwise. no, it isn't. How many champions have there been? Around 40 or so? You list off 10 that you feel have had very difficult shows. You do realize that that is about 25% of champions. That puts the demanding champions shows in a fairly rare category. Thanks for ignoring this phrase where I state that there are others that have had very difficult shows as well. Its like I said Crown had the only difficult show and I did not. Also I don't think any of us could sit here and say that any of the top corps dont have "it" But apparently you think you can. Cavaliers as a corps who has the highest demand from both drill and music? No offense to them because they create fantastic shows and you dont always have to have both rediculous demand in both music and drill at the same time, but cavies have been known for very effective and difficult drill with a brass accompaniment. Here we are talking about very high difficulty from all aspects of the design. Im not debating that you must have difficulty in all aspects to win DCI, I am saying that it is all relevant to what others around you are doing and how clean they already are at points in the season. Peaking would be the term. I am debating that if peaking is to occur and it does, then corps that have very high difficulty who are already scoring very competitively with corps with easier and or cleaner shows, should reap the rewards if they clean by finals. Cadets fall into what I am talking about as well. You want to just simply state that well crown doesnt have it so they cant win even if they clean. That is rediculous and arrogant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathers Up Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) How many champions have there been? Around 40 or so? You list off 10 that you feel have had very difficult shows. You do realize that that is about 25% of champions. That puts the demanding champions shows in a fairly rare category. Yeah, but you also have to keep in mind when the visual side started to really come forward in terms of "demand" . It started with a few shows in the mid 80's and just started building from there. Edited July 27, 2009 by Feathers Up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 How many champions have there been? Around 40 or so? You list off 10 that you feel have had very difficult shows. You do realize that that is about 25% of champions. That puts the demanding champions shows in a fairly rare category. Thanks for ignoring this phrase where I state that there are others that have had very difficult shows as well. Its like I said Crown had the only difficult show and I did not.Also I don't think any of us could sit here and say that any of the top corps dont have "it" But apparently you think you can. Cavaliers as a corps who has the highest demand from both drill and music? No offense to them because they create fantastic shows and you dont always have to have both rediculous demand in both music and drill at the same time, but cavies have been known for very effective and difficult drill with a brass accompaniment. Here we are talking about very high difficulty from all aspects of the design. Im not debating that you must have difficulty in all aspects to win DCI, I am saying that it is all relevant to what others around you are doing and how clean they already are at points in the season. Peaking would be the term. I am debating that if peaking is to occur and it does, then corps that have very high difficulty who are already scoring very competitively with corps with easier and or cleaner shows, should reap the rewards if they clean by finals. Cadets fall into what I am talking about as well. You want to just simply state that well crown doesnt have it so they cant win even if they clean. That is rediculous and arrogant. What are you trying to argue here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 What are you trying to argue here? Not sure but since he's talking about HNC and CC in the same breath, I think he means BD and Cavies are clean and their show is not getting much cleaner. So if Cadets and Crown can *get* clean they should pass these guys...... Is that right SCarolina ?? That's what I got out of that message anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Not sure but since he's talking about HNC and CC in the same breath, I think he means BD and Cavies are clean and their show is not getting much cleaner. So if Cadets and Crown can *get* clean they should pass these guys...... Is that right SCarolina ?? That's what I got out of that message anyway. I can understand that. I doubt Crown's individual marching will get there this year. The visual program they've been given is too hard for them. Maybe someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Has anyone given thoughts on SCV catching and surpassing Crown? Maybe the corps is more concerned with remaining in 4th than capturing a top 3 position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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