HockeyDad Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 We have to understand that these are the best designers in the world. Lots of people on here think they know better. There is a reason why these designers are where they are and the rest of us are where we are. Basically either evolve as a fan along with the activity or stop watching, but please stop complaining. Wow, what a closed-minded attitude. How about this - toughen up, buttercup. Deal with it. People don't like what you're designing. So....ignore them, or change. Telling them to "shut up" is pretty immature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumcorps4life Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Eh, nothing is better than playing loud in my opinion :-) Great music helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Instead of griping and sniping, how about try offering solid analysis, objectivity and support your arguments with examples. . . .I don't recall doing that anywhere in my response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphscott Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The problem with this is that not everyone has the opportunity to view a show multiple times. If you live in the drum corps hinterlands, the circus comes to down only one day a year. If you have a highbrow show requiring multiple looks, you may lose a potential fan if they don't get your show in the one and only viewing. Play a show that requires only enjoyment and you may have a fan for life. That is a good point, although I do not consider myself anywhere near in the league as the designers of the shows we saw last night. There is plenty of stuff that is way over my head and I learn something everytime I watch a show. I usually have to watch some shows a couple of times to really get it, the Blue Devils of this year being a perfect example. I just wish that everyone would give shows a shot before we say the activity has gone to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Wow, what a closed-minded attitude. How about this - toughen up, buttercup. Deal with it. People don't like what you're designing. So....ignore them, or change. Telling them to "shut up" is pretty immature. Sounds like a car saleman I had years ago... "Hey kid, I've been in this business a long time. I'll tell you what knid of car you're looking for". What HE didn't know is my family was in the auto business for decades and I was checking for #### he never dreamed of. And no, the door didn't hit my butt on the way out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 So I've been on here for a while now keeping up with the big topics but not posting much at all. I had said that I didn't want to get involved. Well now I can't help but add my opinion on the state of drum corps.I don't claim to be an expert in any way, shape or form, but I'd like to think that I have a little clue of what goes into putting together a show from my own teaching and designer experience. I'm no where near the level of those at the top of the activity right now. Most importantly, I'm a fan. Yes, drum corps has changed over the years. While I like some of the changes, I did not like some others. Some of the changes that I don't like grew on me after I gave it a chance. Here's my humble opinion on some of the complaints I see on here: "Bb Flat instruments aren't as good cause they aren't as loud as G horns..." -First of all, it's not just Bb horns, there are F and C horns as well. While you are able to project more on G horns, they are hard to keep in tune. Give me a well balanced, in tune horn line with a full sound over a loud but with suspect tone quality line any day. "Shows are no longer musically based, but are now visually driven, and that's what the judges want..." "I don't want art, I want drum corps!" -The current judges system gives us a 50-50 split musically to visually, precisely what it should be. The Cavaliers figured out in the early 2000s how to write total productions rather than music with visual accompaniment. This had been evolving with other corps throughout the 90s, but they set the standard. It is not visually driven or musically driven, it is a total artistic production. This was not decided on by the judges. It was presented to the judges by innovative designers, and the judges liked it. Judges don't push the activity, designers do. Also, music is art, drill design is art, flag and costume design is art, dance is art, all of which are in drum corps. Therefore, drum corps is art! Any good designer will tell you that they consider themselves an artist, as they should. "Electronics and narration do not belong in drum corps..." -Ok, I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of this, but some of it has grown on me. It really depends on how it's used. For example, 05 Cadets grew on me, did not like 06, loved 07, did not like 08 (except for the brilliant ending drill sequence!), very much enjoy 09 except for the sound samples. But it is here now and I have accepted that. Like I said, it depends on how it's used. Amplification of the pit allows pit members to play with proper technique and still be heard, synths are ok as long as it blends well, but I'm not a fan of prerecord sound samples. "Drum corps is not band, the band designers should stay out..." -First of all the majority of drum corps designers are also the top marching band designers! And if you've ever seen BOA, you may have notice that those show designs are actually more innovative and a few years ahead of what drum corps show design is. "Everyone looks and sounds the same..." -While this did seem to happen for a while with the middle tier corps, I believe the top half of World Class still has their own identity and unique show design style. "They don't entertain me, so they aren't good" -You not liking it does not make it bad. I am not a fan of some composers, but that does not mean that they aren't some of the best at what they do. Lots of people don't like what they don't understand. Example, I did not like this year's BD show when I first saw it but understood why it is doing so well. After my second viewing, I understand it better and was actually entertained by it. So yeah, the activity has changed. It is an art form and is no longer just playing higher, faster, and louder. If that's what you are in to, then go watch DCA. DCA is a great forum for that type of drum corps. The activity also changed in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. This is no different. We have to understand that these are the best designers in the world. Lots of people on here think they know better. There is a reason why these designers are where they are and the rest of us are where we are. Basically either evolve as a fan along with the activity or stop watching, but please stop complaining. Izzy, You have some great points and I really appreciate you laying down your thoughts in a constructive way, We need more people like you here. The activity has changed, some things for the better, and some for the worse. I would argue that what needs to be fixed doesn't come from the performance side, rather the adjudication side. We need to find a way to push show designers to try and connect with the audience more. Honestly I think there are some designers that get so wrapped in the conecpt of the show that they create something incredibly complex that is accessible to no one. Changing the adjudication system won't fix everything, but I think it would be a start in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The fact that the OP liked the 2007 Cadets show with that shockingly horrific amalgam of words known as narration calls into question their sanity, intellect and expertise...IMHO of course ;) Seriously, any writer would have been embarrassed by that hackneyed collection of rumblings so ineloquently cobbled together by our favorite DCP punching bag, George Hopkins. The writing was BAD. And if this activity is now "art," then writing should be held up to a standard equally as high as the drum and brass books. There is such a thing as bad art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That is a good point, although I do not consider myself anywhere near in the league as the designers of the shows we saw last night. There is plenty of stuff that is way over my head and I learn something everytime I watch a show. I usually have to watch some shows a couple of times to really get it, the Blue Devils of this year being a perfect example. I just wish that everyone would give shows a shot before we say the activity has gone to hell. I am also one of the folks having a really tough time with the Dev's show this year, and I have seen it on many occasions. I was hoping it would grow on me last night, but I think I was even more put off. Honestly, I think the reason for most of the backlash on the boards the past 24 hours is becuase of their show. I feel bad for the kids. Probably one of the most talented group of performers ever to hit the field. But the vehicle they have been given feels more like a Cirque show than drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The fact that the OP liked the 2007 Cadets show with that shockingly horrific amalgam of words known as narration calls into question their sanity, intellect and expertise...IMHO of course ;)Seriously, any writer would have been embarrassed by that hackneyed collection of rumblings so ineloquently cobbled together by our favorite DCP punching bag, George Hopkins. The writing was BAD. And if this activity is now "art," then writing should be held up to a standard equally as high as the drum and brass books. There is such a thing as bad art. You take away the narration and that show is pure, in your face drum corps. A couple years later, that show probably beats BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverMarched Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That is a good point, although I do not consider myself anywhere near in the league as the designers of the shows we saw last night. There is plenty of stuff that is way over my head and I learn something everytime I watch a show. I usually have to watch some shows a couple of times to really get it, the Blue Devils of this year being a perfect example. I just wish that everyone would give shows a shot before we say the activity has gone to hell. I agree with you. I think that we expect a certain drill, book, guard etc, and seeing something different from our expectations of years past can be disappointing, even though the new show may be better in every caption. Otherwise, SCV would be closing with "Bottle Dance" instead of that wonderfully stated closer I witnessed last night. I've been following DCI since 1975, and like much of what I see today, and yes, many of today's shows require "further review" to catch all the nuance happening out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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