Carolina Crown's Missed Opportunity to Win the Championship.

[DrumCorpsMom]

I don't think Crown "missed an opportunity" at all. They had a great show, great season, and great production all-around.

I agree. They were great and there is no shame in coming second to Blue Devils. If they didn't win, I can only blame Lee Beddis' Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - the Jinx lives on.

[GMichael1230]

I cant even believe this is a thread that has so many pages.

G

[Michael Boo]

As a former member of Crown, I have been thoroughly impressed with their show concept this season. I think it is arguably (and knowing the tendency of Drum Corp planet, people with argue) the most difficult show being performed this year. I also believe they have the talent to win the World Title. However, talent alone does not a champion make. Crown is struggling visually and has all season. This is not the fault of the members' ability to execute. It is the fault of the visual designer. There are just too many parts of the drill where the members are leaning into sets and don't have the time to properly move from set to set. If you recall, Star of Indiana used to use the leaning into set concept of marching in their visual performances. Such a style is sloppy and very little can be done from a members' perspective to correct it. Therefore, Crown will lose this year because of visual design flaw, which is a staffing issue and not a member execution issue. After having said what I have, I want to say GO CROWN!!!! I will listen to this show for many years to come with pride that your brass line is the best and your percussion is strong. But please let the visual designer go.

Just one further thought that I hope you take in the suggestive spirit it is given. This would apply to anyone associated in any way with any corps.

Someone who is an alumnus of a corps might be doing the corps a favor to not air complaints about their corps on such a public site as DCP, despite the entertainment value it might bring or the manner in which it might make someone feel better for getting the opinion out in the open.

Rather, my humble suggestion for anyone (and not just the OP) is to express such concerns internally, where they would be far more likely to be heard by those that should hear them, and where they don't risk exposing alumni dissatisfaction to the world at large.

And doing so would also expose the comments to be countered by other alums without the squabble going public.

Just a thought.

[oldschooldbc]

I looked back at all the Finals scores going back to 1972. Every corps that scored 97 or higher either won that year, or has won in other years.

Indeed, every past and former champion, save the Kingsmen, has recorded at least one score of 97 or greater at finals. (And of course, Kingsmen marched under the old, tic-based scoring system, when scores were significantly lower.)

I count five years, since 1984, that a score of 97.5 would have won the championship (or at least a part of it.) 1984, of course, is the year that DCI moved to the current scoring model.

What does this mean? CC are not a champion this year. But they gave a championship-caliber performance.

If they continue to deliver performance of this caliber, they should eventually take home a title. I want to emphasize the word "should". It certainly doesn't guarantee anything.

Are there things they can do to improve their performance? Absolutely. Visual performance is the key area. And should they work on these things, over the next 6 months? Definitely.

They should take pride in their accomplishments, focus on doing things better - and above all else, do not become discouraged. They have a tremendous future ahead of them.

[Dash Fieldpaint]

You have 2 posts thus far. You say you're a Crown vet. I say you're a troll. If you marched with me, PM me and let me know and I'll retract that. Until then I'm labeling you as a troll.

I want to state: Original poster PMed me. He/She is not a troll.

[jmc5682]

I remain haunted by Crown's entire visual package. It was unique and memorable.

Crown was 0.40 down to Blue Devils in Visual Effect, 0.30 down in Visual Performance and 0.90 down in Visual Ensemble. Those are the only scores I can see that might be connected in any way to what the visual designer did. (They were also 0.90 down in Color Guard, but that would be very difficult to prove that that score had anything to do with guard staging within the drill...which I personally thought was outstanding.) Since Visual Performance and Visual Ensemble scores are divided in half before being added to the final score, all three of the aforementioned scores represent a 1.00 deficit to Blue Devils. (0.40 +0.15 +0.45=1.00)

Crown scored 97.50 and Blue Devils 99.05, a spread of 1.55. Subtract 1.00 from that spread and BD still wins by 0.55. SO...go ahead and add in that Color Guard score, which at 0.90 is worth 0.45 in the overall picture. That STILL puts Crown down by 0.10.

I guess you can say if Crown had HIGHER scores than Blue Devils in any of those captions, they could have won. BD had a 19.90 in Visual Performance and perfect scores in Ensemble and Color Guard, so the best (not including Visual Effect) that Crown could have done is a tie. BD had a 19.70 in Visual Effect to Crown's 19.30. So, for Crown to have won, they would have had to beat BD in Visual Effect AND to be safe, gotten perfect scores in the three Visual captions.

OR, they would have had to have BD scoring low in the Visual captions, and this year, that was not going to happen.

Sorry to get so wonky with the numbers, but the presumption that Carolina Crown blew a championship due to mistakes of the visual designer is just grabbing at straws. He's help bring the corps to the edge of beating the corps that has had the greatest run in the history of modern drum corps.

He is to be commended, not condemned. Getting rid of him because the grass is always greener with another designer...well, you know what I mean.

CC did not blow anything. They were terrific and the rich sound that came from their horn line was breathtaking. THey just ran into a corps that was a little better. It was a difficult task for anyone to beat BD this year because the devils had no real weaknesses. Crown really showed they are a contender and I hope they stay a contender for a long time to come. What a great year!

[oldschooldbc]

Yes, it was, and it did.

If it is any consolation, think back to what happened in 1978.

PR and SCV tied in the raw score, at 91.55. But PR had a .1 penalty, from a single drop in the guard line. That brought PR down to 91.45. That cost them the title. I am sure that the person from PR who made that mistake regretted it, for a lifetime. They had to wait 18 more years, before they could finally pick up their first gold medal.

When the HNC drummer fell down on Saturday night, that was bad, but it cost them the silver medal, not the gold. I feel bad for the kid..... and I hope he is alright.

Unfortunately, when you compete at this level, the margin of error is sometimes zero. And if you make a mistake, it can last for a lifetime.

This activity can be beautiful, inspiring, uplifting, and exhilarating. It can also be brutally painful and devastating.

Edited August 11, 2009 by oldschooldbc

[traveller30]

It is amazing how people complain for just the sake of complaining. I thought Crown had the most talented corps they have ever had. My only point is that the judges did not like the design of the show. The members did the best they could to execute what was a poor design. I didn't say I didn't like the visual program, but the judges didn't like it all season, and the final scores demonstrate the point. The only thing I didn't like about the visual performance was the members needing to "lean" in order to get from set to set. The "lean" technique, which has Star of Indiana all over it, looks sloppy. It's not the members' fault, but it is a design flaw. This is, therefore, why I believe the visual designer is to blame for Crown's struggling Visual GE and Overall Visual Performance scoring problems this year.

First off, Crown's technique looks nothing like Star (neither of which I would use *lean technique* as a designation). Second, how is a supposed technique issue a DESIGN problem?

[DCImonkey]

Or maybe they need better instruction?

Maybe the fault is not with the person(s) designing the shows, but the persons teaching the performers how to march the shows.

Maybe it is instruction that is at fault, not design.

My post was sarcasm. I don't think anybody needs to be replaced. Crown did everything they needed to do....they just got beat by a better corps.

[SACMellos2010]

I had the opportunity and great pleasure to see watch Crown rehearse on Tuesday of finals week and I was very impressed by everything in their program.

I do not think they blew anything and should be VERY happy with the product they put on the field. In some years the difficulty that the individual performer is put under is rewarded and in other years it is not as much. That is not slighting BD as they were a great drum corps but in my opinion just didn't have a show that carries the same demand. In my opinion you should get credit for taking on a much higher level of demand.

I spent time on Tuesday both up high and down closer to field level and they demand of their show was incredible and they did an incredible job. Yes it is easy to look very crisp and clean when not faced with the same demand as another show. A lot of this comes down to the corps leadership culture and whether they want to step out of the box at risk of not succeeding or stay in the box and hope the judging community will overlook demand.

Also it really doesn't matter what the judges feelings on things are. There is a second place corps from many years ago that is still talked about today much more than the corps that won that year in Mississippi. I have a feeling this Crown show is going to be talked about, watched, and listened to for many years to come. I also have a feeling the members will cherish this production as well as I know that I will.

Tuesday I said many times.... WOW now that is a drum corps and one that has finally excited me again about the activity.

JMO