donincardona Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 maybe it's time to just place corps and forget about scores. if reading was the best then they are 1st. if mbi was 2nd best then they get 2nd and so on. might just as well. sooner or later the judges run out of room for point's and then it's not fair to the winner. just saying.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPINCYCLE Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Put the flack jackets on...Is anyone worth a 99? YES... if they are better than the corps with 98.9... I'm sorry if you don't like the current system of adjudication - but it is tried and tested and represents a successful culmination of decades of experience... it is also the same basic system used by DCI, Marching Bands and a whole bunch of other activities... The judges first 2 priorities are #1 - rank properly and #2 - rate properly (rating being the space between a corps and its next closest competitor) This system screams for 2 words: SHOW DYNAMICS Consequently comparing scores from show to show or year to year is pretty much invalid... Looking at the recap, it's very easy to see how a judge - working with his familiarity with most of the corps - would get bumped up to where they were based on Sunday evenings performance and the culprit? Stand and be recognized EMPIRE STATESMEN... After Hawthorne was given their scores following a good performance, empire came out an definitely outdid themselves. I'm certain everyone on here agrees that a "special" performance MUST be rewarded... and in the appropriate areas - GE for one - they scored a bit higher than in prelims - MOST APPROPRIATELY - Once those Empire numbers were recorded the rest is history... Hurcs were great but fell slightly ... MBI turned on... MUCH better than prelims... so they move over Empire and Hurcs - oh yeah... Empire had already raised the bar higher... so MBI to be properly ranked and rated got a mighty fine score... Then came Bucs... and most judges saw it clear that they were better than all the others.. what do you do?? give them all the system will allow you to give... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with perfection. Let me make this statement and I've been in this position quite a few times... especially in World Class Winter Guard - but in DCA too - I might contend that the system did not give Bucs a gift but rather short changed them... here's why... I'm quite certain that several of those perfect scores were one or two tenths over the next group. I'm also quite certain that at least some of those judges wished they had another tenth or two to give them... Point being... if you give someone 98 and the next group is 4 tenths better - you can only give them 100 and you just screwed them out of 2 tenths... While it's not a perfect system - as one of the few around who has used a large variety of systems... I can say unequivicably that it's the best we have ever had... suck it up and be proud of the performances of all these wonderful corps... it's only a number You may take your flack jackets off now... GEZZZZ youre sying the same theing here YEAH ok corps are worth a 99 when they are better than a coprs that just had a 98.9...DUHHHH Its like I said hi on the bottom gotta raise the top...a real 99...yeah ok..Dream on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPINCYCLE Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 GEZZZZ youre sying the same theing here YEAH ok corps are worth a 99 when they are better than a coprs that just had a 98.9...DUHHHHIts like I said hi on the bottom gotta raise the top...a real 99...yeah ok..Dream on wow i posted that 2 fast...lol....sounded like red neck english and bad spelling....sorry for that..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 You miss the key point Show Dynamics Each show (or in this case each championship) has to stand alone... you have: Different Corps Different Judges (yes different opinions) Different Order of Appearances Different Successes (i.e. who's hot and who's not that day) So the only thing that becomes important is the Ranking and Rating that show... nothing else... If the show happens to be the Championship finals and the VERY LAST show of the year for all these corps - then the judges have the right and the need to use all the ranking and rating space they need to call it right... after all - there's NO tomorrow... what would be the reason to hold back as long as the judge is content with his rating? I'm over hearing that no one is worth a 99... Bucs WERE worth it... I can also think of a few instances (Brigs a couple of years comes to mind and Empire's Miss Saigon) when I would not have been surprised had I seen scores like that, but it didn't happen because of Show Dynamics... As they played their victory concert those years, I don't think one person said "but geeze, we didn't get a 99!" That thinking works both ways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPINCYCLE Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 You miss the key pointShow Dynamics Each show (or in this case each championship) has to stand alone... you have: Different Corps Different Judges (yes different opinions) Different Order of Appearances Different Successes (i.e. who's hot and who's not that day) So the only thing that becomes important is the Ranking and Rating that show... nothing else... If the show happens to be the Championship finals and the VERY LAST show of the year for all these corps - then the judges have the right and the need to use all the ranking and rating space they need to call it right... after all - there's NO tomorrow... what would be the reason to hold back as long as the judge is content with his rating? I'm over hearing that no one is worth a 99... Bucs WERE worth it... I can also think of a few instances (Brigs a couple of years comes to mind and Empire's Miss Saigon) when I would not have been surprised had I seen scores like that, but it didn't happen because of Show Dynamics... As they played their victory concert those years, I don't think one person said "but geeze, we didn't get a 99!" That thinking works both ways.... I'm agreeing with you BECAUSE of " show dynamics " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dciknowledge Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) How does a percussion score get 10's when there was dirt in snare breaks and a tear... a TEAR! I was at DCA and heard it... it wasn't a debacle of a tear but none the less. Edited September 14, 2009 by dciknowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpsBuff Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I guess I just don't understand how a scoring system can be valid when the maximum score can mean something completely different at 2 different times. This coming from a guy who has received the maximum score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Is ANYONE really worth a 99 lets get serious...lol Junior or all age.. alot of times also scores get pushed on the top merely because it started too high on the bottom .......Just another thought People always think this way unless thier favorite corps gets it. Then its "yay us!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 How does a percussion score get 10's when there was dirt in snare breaks and a tear... a TEAR! I was at DCA and heard it... it wasn't a debacle of a tear but none the less. Simple. Even with a tear and a few rubs, the judge in question believed them to be ___ amount of points (or tenths) better than the next highest ensemble. So if i gave Corps A a 9.8 and Corps B was clearly better, (or even a little bit better), i gig them the remaining .2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 once you accept the premise that the judge's priorities are to rank and rate in that order, then, you can accept that if the second best group is given a 9.9 and the best has to be given a 10.0 because they were one tenth better than the 9.9 - NOT because they were perfect - then it all makes sense... If you don't accept that premise... the rules are determined by the corps every 2 years. I suggest you talk to your favorite corps director before the Dec. 2010 rules congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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