JoeDz Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 agreed. 10 doesnt mean perfect...it means the best of the night. Actually, 10 means the best allowed for the night. If the Bucs' performed exactly the same at the Cabs Wildwood opener as they did on finals night, they would NOT get a 10. The system is perfect for DCA scoring purposes so long as we understand that it based on relativity..... that corps on that night against those other corps on that weekend of the season. Further, if the first 13 corps in the show had so-so drum performances, the Bucs would NOT get their 20 score. The other corps were so good on that final weekend that the two judges HAD to give a 10 to describe them. Above all............."not broke......don't fix" T. Peashy circa recently. Joe in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovindrumcorps Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 two posts deserve answers...FIRST Number of a show... YES, this is ALWAYS the most important number of the show. YES, it sets your standards for all the other numbers. This is judging 101 - basic numbers management... Your question, if Bucs had gone on first could they have received a 10 out of 10? Answer is not so easy - probably not. I would have been VERY reluctant to give the first corps on a perfect number - or - for that matter to give a perfect number if there's ANYONE left to perform... not impossible mind you - but very reluctant to do it... why? You must assume that someone coming on after could be better... I've seen it happen that someone gets a max number with another corps to come on - so it CAN happen, but again, I'm personally uncomfortable with it... to lovindrumcorps you say you don't trust the system and then describe a scenario where the judge would be WRONG... although the judges "experience" is critical to his ability to judge properly, you are correct that he should be able to rise above his own personal preferences. I guess I'm uncomfortable with you saying you don't trust the system because it can be abused or done improperly??? Crap happens... that's not the system's fault... believe me - this system has far less opportunity for error than many used previously... One thing you should be clearer about is your scenario... again simply stating personal preferences is wrong... trying to re-write the book is also probably not a good idea... but offering constructive assistance to improving is what it's all about... after ranking and rating the third and final priority is "Evaluating"... to do this, you must talk about what's right and sometimes what's wrong... Further... this is a slippery slope BUT... especially in the case of drumming who seem more enamoured with ticks and tears than other captions, the judge is put in the position of ranking and rating and quite possibly both sections could be tick free, but are they equal? Probably not, because through the judges experience he can not help but take demand into account... a simple example of this would be 9 snares stand still and play a perfect lick at 160 BPM another 9 snares play the same lick perfectly while crab stepping over 30 yards at 160 BPM... who gets more reward...??? pretty obvious... No one said judging is simple - quite the opposite - it is VERY difficult and requires experts to do it correctly... I guess what I'm more concerned about is that there are no checks and balances within the system that would one: Hold a judge accountable for his inability to do the job at hand, and two: There is nothing in place to award the corps who may have had taken a sufficient drop in placement or score due to such an error. I could see it a daunting task for the chief judge to listen to every tape and review each judges sheet, but really..Who judges the judges? People often say this system is way to political...But if all checks and balances were in place...then errors like this couldn't possibly happen. Why should a corps have to fall short of their goal because an adjudicator/s failed to do his or her job or worse and here is that word "slotted" a corps no matter the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDrumGuy Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) People keep talking about difficulty and if something is more difficult it should be rewarded with demand. Why? If what they're doing conveys the music and visual properly, that's all you have to do. There shouldn't be such a big argument on difficulty. Making and idea or concept, clear and precise is much more important towards the visual and music. If a corps does their job right, their show shouldn't come off as difficult or complicated even if it is extremely difficult or complicated... The real argument should be if their presentation is exciting, well developed and executed, and clear. Edited September 14, 2009 by NJDrumGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I knew I shouldn't have mentioned demand... that being said... not taking the various design complexities into account will stifle creativity and send us back into the dark ages... If you wish to be using straight bugles marching around in parade formation... go for it... but I won't pay to see it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I guess what I'm more concerned about is that there are no checks and balances within the system that would one: Hold a judge accountable for his inability to do the job at hand, and two: There is nothing in place to award the corps who may have had taken a sufficient drop in placement or score due to such an error. I could see it a daunting task for the chief judge to listen to every tape and review each judges sheet, but really..Who judges the judges? People often say this system is way to political...But if all checks and balances were in place...then errors like this couldn't possibly happen. Why should a corps have to fall short of their goal because an adjudicator/s failed to do his or her job or worse and here is that word "slotted" a corps no matter the performance. i'm pretty sure each caption head has ways of checking on in numbers, talking to the judges and even getting "double tapes" from the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jware Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) I guess what I'm more concerned about is that there are no checks and balances within the system that would one: Hold a judge accountable for his inability to do the job at hand, and two: There is nothing in place to award the corps who may have had taken a sufficient drop in placement or score due to such an error. I could see it a daunting task for the chief judge to listen to every tape and review each judges sheet, but really..Who judges the judges? People often say this system is way to political...But if all checks and balances were in place...then errors like this couldn't possibly happen. Why should a corps have to fall short of their goal because an adjudicator/s failed to do his or her job or worse and here is that word "slotted" a corps no matter the performance. Dear lovindrumcorps, Please clear this up for me. Are you trolling, or do you have an ax to grind over something that happened at this year's championship, or just disgruntled over "the system"? You certainly seem determined to make a point, albeit anonymously. Quite determined indeed for someone who just joined the group 3 days ago. Just sayin'. Thanks, Jerry Ware Buccaneers Edited September 14, 2009 by jware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyfromhowardst Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Whelp, when I first started out in drum corps we were taught that a score of 100 was perfect and that although no corps would ever score that high, it was the number to shoot for, like a batting average. Stone age. Then scoring changes to build up. Now 100 means the top score of the evening? Is drum corps being graded on a curve? I want the tick back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenorsForWorldDomination Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Dear lovindrumcorps,Please clear this up for me. Are you trolling, or do you have an ax to grind over something that happened at this year's championship, or just disgruntled over "the system"? You certainly seem determined to make a point, albeit anonymously. Quite determined indeed for someone who just joined the group 3 days ago. Just sayin'. Thanks, Jerry Ware Buccaneers What would it matter? He is free to make his point without justifying it to anyone, especially a BoD from a drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) you want the tick back? Then you have not read all these threads... but you're welcome to your opinion... thankfully, it will NEVER happen... by the way, how many shows have YOU judged? With winter guard and drum corps and marching bands I must have done maybe 400... you? Have you judged 8 DCA Championships? Oh and have you been chief judge training other judges for an entire state? Have you been chief visual judge for DCA, selecting, clinicing and critiquing other judges? Have you caught young judges erasing and added ticks to make the score comes out right? hmmm... I have done all these things... You? Edited September 14, 2009 by TomPeashey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Whelp, when I first started out in drum corps we were taught that a score of 100 was perfect and that although no corps would ever score that high, it was the number to shoot for, like a batting average. Stone age. Then scoring changes to build up. Now 100 means the top score of the evening? Is drum corps being graded on a curve?I want the tick back. no you dont, because the tick was just as subjective if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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