The history of the Westshoremen

[buzzgok]

And THAT is whats sorely missing from the activity: The skill and vertuosity required to produce a piece of complicated music within the limits of the G Bugle.

And produce that music with such volume and passion as to bring an audience to its feet, time after time, show after show.

And we have seen many corps that were able to do just that.

[Jaminbenb]

And THAT is whats sorely missing from the activity: The skill and vertuosity required to produce a piece of complicated music within the limits of the G Bugle.

And produce that music with such volume and passion as to bring an audience to its feet, time after time, show after show.

Amen brother! Listening to my circa 77-81 DCI cd's and old DCA records proves that! Sure maybe the drills are a bit more intense and complicated, and it STILL takes talent to blow air through a horn, or physically hit a percussion instrument, but the limitations of that instrumentation is what made US different and the activity even MORE difficult! (but then again, maybe it's less difficult for the arranger, and not so much the instrumentalist)

I remember when people were getting riled up about Reading using flugel horns, french horns, and euphoniums as opposed to mello-phones and only baritones! (about 1979-80)

[Jaminbenb]

Ben, how can you forget the guy who kept a 5th of Southern Comfort in his cooler for the first show we lost which ended up being in Rochester? (Thanks Westshoremen 1996 for winning that show for us) Kevin was so drunk, we had to stop and drop him off at a house on the main street in Selinsgrove at like 6 in the morning. He opened that bottle when the busses started to move to leave Rochester and by the time we hit city limits on the way out, it was almost empty.

Now it's my turn to rant on the state of DCI.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I am under the impression that amps were voted in because the excuse was, "you can't hear the pit. The hornline drowns them out." Now, I worked with sound boards and mics in the past and I know that technology has not evolved to the point that a mic can tell the difference between a horn and a pit instrament. You have these drill writers bringing the hornlines up front to the sidelines right behind the pit. So, now what you have is an amplified horn and a drowned out pit. I don't like amplified pit. Can's stand the amplified voice and everything else that is being used. I sat and watched Jersey Surf play what was to be a patriotic show only to ruin it with a mini moog. (keyboard) I am there for a drum corps show. If I want to see a concert, I will go to the proper venue to watch the show I wish to see. Sometimes I think they should go back to the rule, "if you can't carry it, you can't play it.

Ok, I'm done for now.

Nope....still doesn't ring a bell. As I said, I read your post, I looked at the picture to make sure I was in it with him, and just don't remember him?!?!? How weird is that! I mean it's not like it's some third baritone that kept to himself, rode the lollipop bus and never made any off color remarks about anything...IT WAS THE FREAKING DRUM MAJOR!?!?!

There ARE mic-ing techniques where you can position it based upon the polar pattern of the mic so you don't get a direct feed INTO the mic, but there still is a bit of cross talk that you'll pick up. That said, if it were ONLY for sound reinforcement, then I probably wouldn't have that much of an issue with it, but it's the use of synthesizers, electronic percussion, voice, and other things (guitars, bass, etc) that really bugs me!

Someone should start a circuit that employs that way of thinking! If you can't carry it, you can't play it! Heck, I remember in 1980 when I had to take my "disco cymbal" for Spanish Dreams up to the sideline because no one was able to cross the plane from either direction?!?!

[JimF-LowBari]

Someone should start a circuit that employs that way of thinking! If you can't carry it, you can't play it! Heck, I remember in 1980 when I had to take my "disco cymbal" for Spanish Dreams up to the sideline because no one was able to cross the plane from either direction?!?!

Hey that cymbal got me in Danville for free in 1980. Benny needed some help to carry in the DM podium and other crap. I walked in carrying the simple.... oops cymbal watched the show and then sat down somewhere. Later realized I never bought a ticket.

Early 1980s two friends and I went to Hershey and same thing happened. They sat down and I went to talk to people I knew. Next thing I know I'm helping to push the cart o' crap and watched Shore while sitting on the field. At least when the corps was done I had a seat.

[JimF-LowBari]

And THAT is whats sorely missing from the activity: The skill and vertuosity required to produce a piece of complicated music within the limits of the G Bugle.

And produce that music with such volume and passion as to bring an audience to its feet, time after time, show after show.

Never really appreciated the arranging for 2 valves (P/R) until I got to play 3v and saw how things could open up.

Let's not forget the possiblilty of overblowing those suckers if you weren't paying attention. #### how many times were we yelled at for not listening to what we were doing. Eh, when someone slams the old horns I just remind 'em they were "modified Army signaling devices" and they look like -->

Seriuosly, it's the soft melodic pieces played by corps that were always the WTF for me. Have a recording of WSM in 1954 playing "Bolero" for concert. Just a mind blower considering it's single piston and not sure if slides were even used.

[Jaminbenb]

Hey that cymbal got me in Danville for free in 1980. Benny needed some help to carry in the DM podium and other crap. I walked in carrying the simple.... oops cymbal watched the show and then sat down somewhere. Later realized I never bought a ticket.

Early 1980s two friends and I went to Hershey and same thing happened. They sat down and I went to talk to people I knew. Next thing I know I'm helping to push the cart o' crap and watched Shore while sitting on the field. At least when the corps was done I had a seat.

Yeah...got to do the same thing for Reading in 1986...Walked up to the corps while practicing, Ron said "Do me a favor, help them push the pit stuff in, then you can go to the show for nothing!"

I used to go to the corps gate at DCI East because I probably marched with someone that would let me in! THOSE were the daze!

[hairbear]

Amen brother! Listening to my circa 77-81 DCI cd's and old DCA records proves that! Sure maybe the drills are a bit more intense and complicated, and it STILL takes talent to blow air through a horn, or physically hit a percussion instrument, but the limitations of that instrumentation is what made US different and the activity even MORE difficult! (but then again, maybe it's less difficult for the arranger, and not so much the instrumentalist)

I remember when people were getting riled up about Reading using flugel horns, french horns, and euphoniums as opposed to mello-phones and only baritones! (about 1979-80)

Bottom line on this: Don't tell me I am going to have Prime Rib for dinner and serve me porkchops.

[Jeff Ream]

Amping the pit if done right fan add a lot, they just don't do it right. And I don't need/want synths, guitars etc.

I have taught and judged pitted/grounded lines, and W, it's a different demand than a marching lne has, and often due to staging, it can make harder listenng environments for not just the line, but the entire unit. You rarely see it in drum corps now, but I've seen it done well in the band world, as well as lived it 3 times...Scott remember NL 92?

If you think less about battery/pit and go "percussion ensemble", it can be done well, and I'll state that

My 2 years of it at West Perry showed you can score well and educate the kids. I had kids playing up to 8 different instruments in a 9 minute show, and I made sure they were more than technically proficient on each one. IMO, that's a he'll of a lot more demanding than playing a snare and running around the field for 8 minutes.

And of every show I have ever taught. 2003 West Perry, a grounded unit, is my favorite. Not only did the kids become better trained,, so did I.

[BigW]

Amping the pit if done right fan add a lot, they just don't do it right. And I don't need/want synths, guitars etc.

I have taught and judged pitted/grounded lines, and W, it's a different demand than a marching lne has, and often due to staging, it can make harder listenng environments for not just the line, but the entire unit. You rarely see it in drum corps now, but I've seen it done well in the band world, as well as lived it 3 times...Scott remember NL 92?

If you think less about battery/pit and go "percussion ensemble", it can be done well, and I'll state that

My 2 years of it at West Perry showed you can score well and educate the kids. I had kids playing up to 8 different instruments in a 9 minute show, and I made sure they were more than technically proficient on each one. IMO, that's a he'll of a lot more demanding than playing a snare and running around the field for 8 minutes.

And of every show I have ever taught. 2003 West Perry, a grounded unit, is my favorite. Not only did the kids become better trained,, so did I.

Sometimes, you have no choice but to run a grounded percussion ensemble because of a serious lack of qualified and capable personnel- and it can work extrememly well- my point was, everything alse being equal--- and in that situation, it was- both of their grounded sections made about the same level of contribution to the overall ensemble to the point it was hair-splitting at worst, AND the other had a moving line as well..

Now-- if the one with the leg line had been a bunch of kids with 2 left hands and five thumbs playing unmusically and all rippin' high off the smell of the fresh-cut grass on the competition field, that's a different story, but they weren't.

And yes-- staging can serious complicate everything in a nightmarishly nasty way, but this grounded line was also placed at the back hash of the 50. Perfectly centered, and behind the winds, which didn't take up a lot of field spread past the 35's IIRC. Group 2-sized band, BTW.

So it wasn't like they ever had to listen back, everyone else listened back to them throughout the program.

The last thing I look at is size-- seen Brass sections of 6-8 kids perform more musically and with a better understanding of what was expected of them and perform harder stuff than ones with 40 people. A fairly rare thing, but it can happen when you have everything in place with the perfoemers and good educators.

[BigW]

I'm still on the fence with the G Bugle versus the whole B-Flat thing. I never thought it was harder per se to play one versus the B-Flat horns. It's more the quality of the instrument than what key it's in.

If you give me a 2-valve King Bari like BD had in the early '80's it's a wonderful instrument because it's very responsive, lighter, and also well-balanced.

The Old P/R Olds Ultratones are VERY easy to hold up for a performance because of the ergonomics. They're also really light, but you have to be careful to listen to every note you play because those chrome-played thingies are really sketchy and easy to over-burn everything that comes out the bell. I mean Skyliners kinda nuclear burn here.

I didn't like the DEG Dynasty Baris we had in '82 and '83 as compared to the King, they were LONG--- and the reach forward with the elbows and the weight farther forward made them more difficult to march and perform with. They were designed for Gorillas and Orangutans to carry, and none of us were QUITE that. They had a better-tempered sound than the Olds but were much harder to rehearse with and get through the day with.

The Kanstul I use in Alumni corps is by far the best-playing of the three but is also MUCH heavier because of the heavy-wall brass used as well as the third valve and the associated plumbing and some of the other accoutrements that are on it. It also demands you practice the beast until you tame it, it's not as responsive as my personal Euphonium I still play in the Derry Brass Quintet. (Yamaha YEP-321S for the curious, bottom-end pro horn)

The other issue with it is that it can crack concrete blocks at 40 yards and I won't break up and distort the timbre. It's not an instrument, it's a weapon. I can play it at 65-70 percent of its absolute envelope in Alumni and balance the other horns in the section. It's also a FAR better instrument than the Yamaha B-Flat marching Baritones I've had the serious displeasure of trying. Just give me a plastic Vuvuzeza like they're blowing all the time in World Cup soccer and I can yell WOOF-WOOF-WOOF into it and sound better than actually playing one of those infernal Yamahas. Utterly unresponsive, no range or agility. The Ultratone's a better instrument with the exception of the sometimes-unreliable for no real reason rotor...

Phantom last year went to Jupiter Marching Brass, and they paid in spades. They have a rep of being cheap marching brass for HS bands who have no budget or have to buy from the lowest bidder. I'd imagine that was a nightmare for their brass staff to have them playing on cheapo crap all of a sudden.

So, the key of the instrument isn't as critical as the quality of the horn the brass player is blowing into IMHO. I played in the All-American Brass Band for a summer and the one feature guy in it used to take his trumpet mouthpiece, stick it in a garden hose with a funnel at the end, and play the melody from "Semper Fidelis" on it while swinging the funnel around his head, which got a cool doppler effect similar to what the Renegades did with the cheerleader cones in the bells.

You give a good brass player a responsive horn they can carry comfortably and not have to favor too many notes and they can make it happen.

The 3rd valve does open out the bottom end note-options below second-space A in treble clef, BUT---- and I say BUT..... the notes below that A on a G Bugle tend to become really woofy and muddy-sounding unless you really work at playing those notes. G bugles come alive from third-space C and up. the real nice ting about a trhee valve bugle is that high A-Flats can be played usnig the third valve but hey, the old schoolers can slam down first and favor the note and the world is... usually... good.

Edited July 9, 2010 by BigW