The history of the Westshoremen

[Jeff Ream]

that's what helped us in 96.....no late additions, a ###### intensive technique package....and no real superstars, just solid team players. Sure, we had folks thatmarched BD, Bones and other places, but they all fit in. That, and many of us had been in the program for years.

I remember KennySherrys GE tape at Hershey in 96...laughing, and gave out a 9 the first week of July.

Dan had Robbie run a tape on us at Barnum...in the drum solo, robbie started talking about spacing in the baritones because we weren't giving him anything...that was the last weekend in June.

We may have #####ed about things like Dan pulling out check patterns in August, but it worked, and we knew it....we just needed something to ##### about. I can elaborate more on 96 and total corps chemistry if and when we ever get done with the early 80s

[Jaminbenb]

Not QUITE there yet, but it gets a little worse in 83...I touched upon it before, (trying to get W out of hiding) but when you had the "hanger ons" trying to get what may have been a championship since we were "so close"..thankfully some of the people that were individually good players, yet not team players left, but we got another crop the next year. 83 was a clusterf*** drum wise because of the instructor situation, the people that didn't really belong, and the seriously late start...I'm trying to think which year we had Hopkins come in and help us at the end of the year...I'm half tempted to say it was 82, and think Thom Hanuum came in again as well that year. 83 was a different year, and I think we ended up not getting anyone in late IIRC...

Thinking back to that 82 (well AND 83) line, we really HAD no former DCI players, or guys that were in other programs...WSM was an anomaly and we pretty much got nothing in that respect (as well as no respect)...I think 83 had a bunch of former Bucs in it...that was it! (and a star tom player from Pioneer Scouts who went on to Crossmen fame) Actually...Manson played with Bones in, I think, 77 but played cymbals for half a season. I don't really recall many people that were former DCI players. (Kathy Bacon but she was guard, and a few other guard people, Brenda Billngs...I forget who else) 83's line had a bunch of high school stars that really "cut their teeth" in drum corps that year...83 was a corps that IF it stayed together for another year WOULD have made some REAL noise...just a very young corps! I think at that starting point, had the corps been able to stay together, and not have that "glitch in time", I think it would have taken a first place sooner, and not have that 10 year span where it was a solid also ran!

Technique? that went away with Steve Meyers...talk about a technique guru! The man could make a 4th grader look good! Nah, we lacked in a lot of areas, and I remember people complaining that we got screwed in 82 and 83, we didn't have it..we were good...top 5 no problem, but enough to go the distance? nah...and sadly it took an even LONGER time to get it back after 1984!

[Jeff Ream]

Not QUITE there yet, but it gets a little worse in 83...I touched upon it before, (trying to get W out of hiding) but when you had the "hanger ons" trying to get what may have been a championship since we were "so close"..thankfully some of the people that were individually good players, yet not team players left, but we got another crop the next year. 83 was a clusterf*** drum wise because of the instructor situation, the people that didn't really belong, and the seriously late start...I'm trying to think which year we had Hopkins come in and help us at the end of the year...I'm half tempted to say it was 82, and think Thom Hanuum came in again as well that year. 83 was a different year, and I think we ended up not getting anyone in late IIRC...

Thinking back to that 82 (well AND 83) line, we really HAD no former DCI players, or guys that were in other programs...WSM was an anomaly and we pretty much got nothing in that respect (as well as no respect)...I think 83 had a bunch of former Bucs in it...that was it! (and a star tom player from Pioneer Scouts who went on to Crossmen fame) Actually...Manson played with Bones in, I think, 77 but played cymbals for half a season. I don't really recall many people that were former DCI players. (Kathy Bacon but she was guard, and a few other guard people, Brenda Billngs...I forget who else) 83's line had a bunch of high school stars that really "cut their teeth" in drum corps that year...83 was a corps that IF it stayed together for another year WOULD have made some REAL noise...just a very young corps! I think at that starting point, had the corps been able to stay together, and not have that "glitch in time", I think it would have taken a first place sooner, and not have that 10 year span where it was a solid also ran!

Technique? that went away with Steve Meyers...talk about a technique guru! The man could make a 4th grader look good! Nah, we lacked in a lot of areas, and I remember people complaining that we got screwed in 82 and 83, we didn't have it..we were good...top 5 no problem, but enough to go the distance? nah...and sadly it took an even LONGER time to get it back after 1984!

83...oh those Cedar Crest kids

[BigW]

I think in discussions about the 1982 Horn line- and I was going to get to more of this- but I think some things need to be noted and thought about.

I think people forget that we were second in horns by .05 to Sky, which was a very controversial caption win to say the least. Meaning, our horn line beat everyone else in 82.....

We had the hornline that year in DCA. In spite of half the horns still using piston-rotors when everyone else at the top had full 2-valve lines excepting maybe the Contras. Something to seriously think about.

We weren't going to sound like Reading. Tony's arrangements were different, more consonant and triadic. Orchestral pieces and pop tunes- Reading's meat and potatoes in that era- are arranged quite differently than Large-ensemble jazz pieces. We had our own timbre/tone color because of Frank's denser and deeper-layered harmonies, which are less transparent. We were also an A**load more bottom-heavy than anyone else in DCA at that time, bar maybe Reading. We were very, very much in tune for that era, if we were NOT-- the 7 and 9 chords we played would have been shot down in flames in execution for bad intonation. Dave would have been all over us. We'd have been all over each other! To compare the Westshoremen Horn Ensemble to a Pipe Organ would be highly inaccurate. It wasn't an organ. It was a jazz ensemble. It's an apple to an orange. The question would be which fruit was the better quality fruit to the judge. In 1982 we had better quality fruit in the hornline than anyone. Part of the problem was that it was some kinda exotic speciality fruit sold at Wegman's as compared to the more normal every-day apples and oranges a lot of the DCA corps were used to selling.

I'm not saying there were problems. There were, and not little issues, either! I'll get to that in detail later, some of Ben's comments are in that vein about a lot of issues that went on as the season progressed. I believe I know what went on and what happened, but I will explain some of this later.

The thing with Sun's horn line in this era was this- and I think Fran and Tony would agree-- everyone talked about the percussion, and deservedly so. BUT--- that horn line was always in the mix, never, ever far from the top, at worst a tick or two below. Always well prepared, always very clean and never slovenly or lazy about how to perform the book, and most important- knew how to SELL material given them when it came time to SELL. When it came time in their performances to throw down, they DID. Sun's horn line didn't stand there like a buncha robots pressing buttons. They also understood how to run the race of the overall season. When the bell lap rang, they were close enough to the lead pack or in that pack, or just enough in front that they had a kick at the end of the season to run for the win. Also- The Sunrisers shows were very well coordinated and a solid package. They weren't trying to pull an Oakland Crusaders stunt on the field, you know where I'm coming from. Everything was put together as a solid, quality total package for the era.

Will discuss more later. I need to get 3 hours sleep before racing today. Things here are still nuts. The former handyman's in Cumberland county prison now, more crap went on in the apartments, and when I went to Fariview Township to see if they might look out for my missing cars- they told me to also go talk to Camp Hill about this idjit. My locks have been changed, and it's just been a real nightmare lately, it could have been worse-- but he needs serious jail time, and the police folks I've talked to said he's looking at it at this point.

I'm looking forward to next Almuni rehearsal to just get my head out of all this crap that's been going on here because of this this bunghole of a person.

[Fran Haring]

The thing with Sun's horn line in this era was this- and I think Fran and Tony would agree-- everyone talked about the percussion, and deservedly so. BUT--- that horn line was always in the mix, never, ever far from the top, at worst a tick or two below. Always well prepared, always very clean and never slovenly or lazy about how to perform the book, and most important- knew how to SELL material given them when it came time to SELL. When it came time in their performances to throw down, they DID.

Absolutely agree, W.

Honestly, we were struggling badly (our horn line, that is... the drum line was cruising along as usual) in the offseason leading up to the summer of 1982. I mean, pulling 20-30 horns at rehearsals not too many weeks before the first show. The players we had... well, we were pretty good...a bunch of veterans who had won DCA titles in the mix... but there weren't enough of us. LOL. At one point, the staff asked for volunteers from the soprano and midrange lines to switch to baritone because we were really hurting for baritones. Three guys...one soprano and two mellophones... switched, and that helped quite a bit.

But our brass staff (Dennis Dewey as caption head, Bob Pearson and John Arietano as techs, with John writing the book) was stellar that season. (Dennis came on board with us just before the 1980 season began and slowly but surely put the brass program back on track after a disastrous offseason leading into '80... he was one of the best brass guys Sun has ever had, IMO. He and the rest of the staff certainly knew how to get the most from us... when to reign us in and when to just let us roll!!!)

A bunch of us figured the horn trophy at Finals was coming down to either Westshoremen, Buccaneers, or us. Sky winning the trophy that year was, shall we say, a bit of a surprise, to put it mildly. LOL

[BigW]

I have no doubt Sun wanted that trophy as much as we did and took their best shot at it. We'd been splitting caption trophies through much of that season, IIRC, and they were serious motivators.

[Jaminbenb]

Sky was an anomalie as far as I'm concerned. Yeah they had that big brasssssy sound, and I still remember the jokes of Sky horn players whacking their horns against buses to get them tuned (a few of the old "Rebs" used to say that) but standing out in front of them, they were a "force" to be reckoned with (As were Cabs) Now, with that in mind, the FULLNESS of sound (as explained to me once by a more "learned" brass player"), was apparently obtained by using many whole notes in the lower brass sections, higher (and much smaller duration) notes in the upper registers, and a solid yet technical mid-voicing. (and whether any of this is true, I have no clue, I pounded animal skins with a stick ) But that was apparently why Sky and Cabs always appeared to get the crowd "riled up" (well and Jimmy shaking his bum with glitter in his chest hair )

Not remembering what they sounded like live, (and from a proper vantage point) and only having benefit of the DCA recordings, I always thought our hornlines sounded very sloppy in the upper registers, and we never had the soloists (well except Sylvia ) that gave us any great edge...lower brass, and mid voices always seemed to me to be the forte` of our lines..ok...listen to the beginning of Blues 1982...the soprano's are "grating" and sounded sloppy, but when the mids come in, it's sweet, and the low brass was rich...and in my mind, I always hear that sound as our horn line.

Reading was just in a different dimension in those days, even in the off years like 82 and 83, they DID have a nice sounding line. (and I'll add 88 in that mix when we sucked, but had a blast...ok case in point on that show...it was well above the talent of that line, but they DID handle it well) Bowser told me that their "pipe organ sound" was more so because of their mid voicings using the alto flugals, and french horns as opposed to only mello phones, and that did something to the overall sound. (I dunno) They also had the soloists! Now, two of the years I marched, were MARKEDLY different soloist wise...In the opener for 84 (Wind Machine) the soprano soloist (Jim Smith, IIRC) had a SWEET sound and was great...85 I forget who it was, but this person sucked on ice in comparison! And IMHO made a HUGE difference in sound!

Sun, who I was always a fan, and I DID try to see whenever I got the chance, had what I always felt was a "DCI" caliber line in a sense that they were always solid, nothing stuck out, and they were clean! Ok, MAYBE not the level of say Santa Clara, or Blue Devils at the time, but definite top 12..add in a spectacular drumline, and it created an edge that kept them well in the mix even in years when they weren't number one.

I think in discussions about the 1982 Horn line- and I was going to get to more of this- but I think some things need to be noted and thought about.

I think people forget that we were second in horns by .05 to Sky, which was a very controversial caption win to say the least. Meaning, our horn line beat everyone else in 82.....

We had the hornline that year in DCA. In spite of half the horns still using piston-rotors when everyone else at the top had full 2-valve lines excepting maybe the Contras. Something to seriously think about.

We weren't going to sound like Reading. Tony's arrangements were different, more consonant and triadic. Orchestral pieces and pop tunes- Reading's meat and potatoes in that era- are arranged quite differently than Large-ensemble jazz pieces. We had our own timbre/tone color because of Frank's denser and deeper-layered harmonies, which are less transparent. We were also an A**load more bottom-heavy than anyone else in DCA at that time, bar maybe Reading. We were very, very much in tune for that era, if we were NOT-- the 7 and 9 chords we played would have been shot down in flames in execution for bad intonation. Dave would have been all over us. We'd have been all over each other! To compare the Westshoremen Horn Ensemble to a Pipe Organ would be highly inaccurate. It wasn't an organ. It was a jazz ensemble. It's an apple to an orange. The question would be which fruit was the better quality fruit to the judge. In 1982 we had better quality fruit in the hornline than anyone. Part of the problem was that it was some kinda exotic speciality fruit sold at Wegman's as compared to the more normal every-day apples and oranges a lot of the DCA corps were used to selling.

I'm not saying there were problems. There were, and not little issues, either! I'll get to that in detail later, some of Ben's comments are in that vein about a lot of issues that went on as the season progressed. I believe I know what went on and what happened, but I will explain some of this later.

The thing with Sun's horn line in this era was this- and I think Fran and Tony would agree-- everyone talked about the percussion, and deservedly so. BUT--- that horn line was always in the mix, never, ever far from the top, at worst a tick or two below. Always well prepared, always very clean and never slovenly or lazy about how to perform the book, and most important- knew how to SELL material given them when it came time to SELL. When it came time in their performances to throw down, they DID. Sun's horn line didn't stand there like a buncha robots pressing buttons. They also understood how to run the race of the overall season. When the bell lap rang, they were close enough to the lead pack or in that pack, or just enough in front that they had a kick at the end of the season to run for the win. Also- The Sunrisers shows were very well coordinated and a solid package. They weren't trying to pull an Oakland Crusaders stunt on the field, you know where I'm coming from. Everything was put together as a solid, quality total package for the era.

Will discuss more later. I need to get 3 hours sleep before racing today. Things here are still nuts. The former handyman's in Cumberland county prison now, more crap went on in the apartments, and when I went to Fariview Township to see if they might look out for my missing cars- they told me to also go talk to Camp Hill about this idjit. My locks have been changed, and it's just been a real nightmare lately, it could have been worse-- but he needs serious jail time, and the police folks I've talked to said he's looking at it at this point.

I'm looking forward to next Almuni rehearsal to just get my head out of all this crap that's been going on here because of this this bunghole of a person.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Jaminbenb

[Jaminbenb]

But it was a good enough core of players to be able to add in around it! That's what made it work for you guys! The 20-30 at the beginning of the season, were probably eons better at the END of the season when it counted, and the rest that filled in were good enough to not screw things up.

Absolutely agree, W.

Honestly, we were struggling badly (our horn line, that is... the drum line was cruising along as usual) in the offseason leading up to the summer of 1982. I mean, pulling 20-30 horns at rehearsals not too many weeks before the first show. The players we had... well, we were pretty good...a bunch of veterans who had won DCA titles in the mix... but there weren't enough of us. LOL. At one point, the staff asked for volunteers from the soprano and midrange lines to switch to baritone because we were really hurting for baritones. Three guys...one soprano and two mellophones... switched, and that helped quite a bit.

But our brass staff (Dennis Dewey as caption head, Bob Pearson and John Arietano as techs, with John writing the book) was stellar that season. (Dennis came on board with us just before the 1980 season began and slowly but surely put the brass program back on track after a disastrous offseason leading into '80... he was one of the best brass guys Sun has ever had, IMO. He and the rest of the staff certainly knew how to get the most from us... when to reign us in and when to just let us roll!!!)

A bunch of us figured the horn trophy at Finals was coming down to either Westshoremen, Buccaneers, or us. Sky winning the trophy that year was, shall we say, a bit of a surprise, to put it mildly. LOL

[Jeff Ream]

Absolutely agree, W.

Honestly, we were struggling badly (our horn line, that is... the drum line was cruising along as usual) in the offseason leading up to the summer of 1982. I mean, pulling 20-30 horns at rehearsals not too many weeks before the first show. The players we had... well, we were pretty good...a bunch of veterans who had won DCA titles in the mix... but there weren't enough of us. LOL. At one point, the staff asked for volunteers from the soprano and midrange lines to switch to baritone because we were really hurting for baritones. Three guys...one soprano and two mellophones... switched, and that helped quite a bit.

But our brass staff (Dennis Dewey as caption head, Bob Pearson and John Arietano as techs, with John writing the book) was stellar that season. (Dennis came on board with us just before the 1980 season began and slowly but surely put the brass program back on track after a disastrous offseason leading into '80... he was one of the best brass guys Sun has ever had, IMO. He and the rest of the staff certainly knew how to get the most from us... when to reign us in and when to just let us roll!!!)

A bunch of us figured the horn trophy at Finals was coming down to either Westshoremen, Buccaneers, or us. Sky winning the trophy that year was, shall we say, a bit of a surprise, to put it mildly. LOL

Sun, and then later Bush were the masters of the late season surge. It got real fun in 88 and 89 when they were head to head at the top of the standings

[Jeff Ream]

Sky was an anomalie as far as I'm concerned. Yeah they had that big brasssssy sound, and I still remember the jokes of Sky horn players whacking their horns against buses to get them tuned (a few of the old "Rebs" used to say that) but standing out in front of them, they were a "force" to be reckoned with (As were Cabs) Now, with that in mind, the FULLNESS of sound (as explained to me once by a more "learned" brass player"), was apparently obtained by using many whole notes in the lower brass sections, higher (and much smaller duration) notes in the upper registers, and a solid yet technical mid-voicing. (and whether any of this is true, I have no clue, I pounded animal skins with a stick ) But that was apparently why Sky and Cabs always appeared to get the crowd "riled up" (well and Jimmy shaking his bum with glitter in his chest hair )

Not remembering what they sounded like live, (and from a proper vantage point) and only having benefit of the DCA recordings, I always thought our hornlines sounded very sloppy in the upper registers, and we never had the soloists (well except Sylvia ) that gave us any great edge...lower brass, and mid voices always seemed to me to be the forte` of our lines..ok...listen to the beginning of Blues 1982...the soprano's are "grating" and sounded sloppy, but when the mids come in, it's sweet, and the low brass was rich...and in my mind, I always hear that sound as our horn line.

Reading was just in a different dimension in those days, even in the off years like 82 and 83, they DID have a nice sounding line. (and I'll add 88 in that mix when we sucked, but had a blast...ok case in point on that show...it was well above the talent of that line, but they DID handle it well) Bowser told me that their "pipe organ sound" was more so because of their mid voicings using the alto flugals, and french horns as opposed to only mello phones, and that did something to the overall sound. (I dunno) They also had the soloists! Now, two of the years I marched, were MARKEDLY different soloist wise...In the opener for 84 (Wind Machine) the soprano soloist (Jim Smith, IIRC) had a SWEET sound and was great...85 I forget who it was, but this person sucked on ice in comparison! And IMHO made a HUGE difference in sound!

Sun, who I was always a fan, and I DID try to see whenever I got the chance, had what I always felt was a "DCI" caliber line in a sense that they were always solid, nothing stuck out, and they were clean! Ok, MAYBE not the level of say Santa Clara, or Blue Devils at the time, but definite top 12..add in a spectacular drumline, and it created an edge that kept them well in the mix even in years when they weren't number one.

funny you mention 84 Bucs. I just saw video of that show on Facebook. Jesus, what a drumline