Drum Corps Without DCI/DCA

[mobrien]

Not only VFW and AL membership has waned, look at the Shriners, Mason's, Elks, Moose, etc. They all are losing members as the average age is beginning to inch higher and higher every year.

All of that is part of a larger social phenomenon, covered in the book "Bowling Alone". Starting in the 70s, Americans increasingly shifted away from participation in local, community social organizations. Bowling leagues (to use the book's title example) flourished in the 50s and 60s, but declined precipitously in the 70s, even though the number of people who bowl has actually increased. So people want to do the thing; they just don't want the hassle of interacting with others in the process.

Re the VFW and AL, many if not most of the members from the 50s and 60s have kept their membership, but stopped participating in the outreach efforts of their organization. I should have been clearer earlier that I was discussing their decline in terms of 'active membership', vs the guys like my dad who keeps his VFW membership but hasn't stopped by the local post in 30 years. The other consideration is that at the peak of the veterans organization involvement in drum corps in the 60s, many of the men volunteering to help keep their post's corps going were themselves parents of members of the corps; with the boomers aging out of drum corps participation, it makes sense that their fathers would lose the interest in being part of the process as well.

It's interesting to consider the possibility of local circuits having become more important had the national touring model of DCI not come to be the paradigm. Arguably, however, the societal changes and economic changes that occurred in the 70s and 80s would have gone ahead. The shift toward semi-professionalism of youth activities hasn't been isolated to drum corps (note the prevalence of 'travel teams' in soccer, baseball, volleyball etc). As THAT became more and more what kids wanted in their extracurricular activities, it's likely that drum corps would changed the way it actually did, with fewer, but more professional corps and more elaborate shows and instrumentation rather than weekend warrior local corps.

Edited December 17, 2009 by mobrien

[DAvery]

It's interesting to consider the possibility of local circuits having become more important had the national touring model of DCI not come to be the paradigm. Arguably, however, the societal changes and economic changes that occurred in the 70s and 80s would have gone ahead. The shift toward semi-professionalism of youth activities hasn't been isolated to drum corps (note the prevalence of 'touring teams' in soccer, baseball, volleyball etc). As THAT became more and more what kids wanted in their extracurricular activities, it's likely that drum corps would changed the way it actually did, with fewer, but more professional corps and more elaborate shows and instrumentation rather than weekend warrior local corps.

Not to mention the effect of Title IX. The increase in girls sports has had a negative impact on drum corps, and band, participation.

[BRASSO]

Not to mention the effect of Title IX. The increase in girls sports has had a negative impact on drum corps, and band, participation.

How has Title IX had a " negative impact " on drum Corps ? As a percentage of marchers in units, there are MORE female participants than male marchers in DCI teams than in the 60's. Title IX has had vitually no effect on Drum Corps membership other than perhaps a positive effect in increasing the percentage in the activity that are female. In the 60's, most of the females in most Drum Corps units were smaller in numbers compared to males, as females were almost universally confined to Guard. Today, the ranks of all Corps sections ( except guard ) have increased female participation as a percentage of marching members in DCI units. What has changed is more acceptance of females into percussion and brass lines in DCI teams over the years.. And Title IX had nothing at all to do with this. There is also no evidence to suggest that a female that now is allowed more opportunities to play an athletic sport like soccer or basketball under Title IX would instead have been in DCI teams had there not been Title IX. The loss of Drum Corps units and thus drum corps membership totals can be attributed to several predominent factors. But frankly, the Federal Government's Title IX mandate just isn't one of them.

Edited December 17, 2009 by BRASSO

[glory]

...The shift toward semi-professionalism of youth activities hasn't been isolated to drum corps (note the prevalence of 'touring teams' in soccer, baseball, volleyball etc). As THAT became more and more what kids wanted in their extracurricular activities, it's likely that drum corps would changed the way it actually did, with fewer, but more professional corps and more elaborate shows and instrumentation rather than weekend warrior local corps.

An excellent point that is lost too often as we lament the evolution of drum corps and the demise of corps lacking in competitive appeal.

HH

[BRASSO]

Soccer, volleyball, baseball ( yes, baseball too) cited here, all have more world wide participation levels higher today than in the 70's. Drum Corps participation numbers as we all know here are WAY down compared to the 70's.

Soccer, baseball, volleyball has changed little in 40 years re. the fundamentals. These sports changed little as societal, economic and cultural changes took place. Drum Corps on the other hand has undergone enormous ( and some might say radical ) transformation in the last 40 years. Certainly much more so than in the sports of soccer, baseball, volleyball ( cited here ). But this transformation has been fraught with the loss of the total number of units in existance at any given point in time, the total number of marchers in the activity, and numbers in it's fan base,... unlike the growth of soccer, baseball, volleyball world wide in these comparable areas.

There is a plausable case that could be made that had Drum Corps changed little since the 60's, that the activity would have no less a loss of units, marchers, fans.

The loss of units, number of marchers, fan base has been SO large, that it would be inconceivable and folly to automatically presume that these gigantic loses would have occurred at these dramatic levels had Drum Corps changed little since ( say ) 1969. It might have. But that's a big leap to presume these levels of losses knowing that almost no other youth activity has incurred levels of percentage loss this deep, this wide in a similar 40 year time period.

Edited December 17, 2009 by BRASSO

[glory]

Soccer, volleyball, baseball ( yes, baseball too) cited here, all have more world wide participation levels higher today than in the 70's. Drum Corps participation numbers as we all know here are WAY down compared to the 70's.

Soccer, baseball, volleyball has changed little in 40 years re. the fundamentals. These sports changed little as societal, economic and cultural changes took place. Drum Corps on the other hand has gone through enormous transformation in the last 40 years. Certainly much more so than the sports of soccer, baseball, volleyball ( cited here ). But the transformation has been fraught with a diminuation of the number of units, marchers, and fan base, unlike the growth of soccer, baseball, volleyball world wide.

If you're saying drum corps would still be flourishing in every parish and hamlet had it not added valves, miles, moves and amps, you're wrong. Drum corps wasn't the only thing that changed. The society that previously nurtured hundreds of drum corps changed without respect to or regard for the corps it once loved.

You're mistaken about volleyball too. From the quick game the Japanese introduced nearly four decades ago to the beach-influenced, attack from everywhere style of today, volleyball has evolved substantially (don't get me started on the libero, the player who plays only the back row). About the only thing today's game has in common with the 60s is the size of the court and the number of players.

Soccer is different if only for the fact that it wasn't a presence at all on the American scene in the 70s where today it's ubiquitous in every town. Even its style has changed, leaving behind so much of the subtlety of 30 years ago for the more physical play of today.

All three sports have changed too by their adoption by women at the youth level. They changed too by emphasis on creating elite designations for "travel" with the prestige that brings.

Drum corps, volleyball, soccer and baseball all are different, reflecting the different society in which they operate.

HH

Edited December 17, 2009 by glory

[BRASSO]

If you're saying drum corps would still be flourishing in every parish and hamlet had it not added valves, miles, moves and amps, you're wrong. Drum corps wasn't the only thing that changed. The society that previously nurtured hundreds of drum corps changed without respect to or regard for the corps it once loved.

You're mistaken about volleyball too. From the quick game the Japanese introduced nearly four decades ago to the beach-influenced, attack from everywhere style of today, volleyball has evolved substantially (don't get me started on the libero, the player who plays only the back row). About the only thing today's game has in common with the 60s is the size of the court and the number of players.

Soccer is different if only for the fact that it wasn't a presence at all on the American scene in the 70s where today it's ubiquitous in every town. Even its style has changed, leaving behind so much of the subtlety of 30 years ago for the more physical play of today.

All three sports have changed too by their adoption by women at the youth level. They changed too by emphasis on creating elite designations for "travel" with the prestige that brings.

Drum corps, volleyball, soccer and baseball all are different, reflecting the different society in which they operate.

HH

If your position is that the game of volleyball played in ( say ) 1969 has changed in 40 years comparable to the changes in Drum Corps from ( say ) 1969, to that of today, then we are simply going to have to disagree. If one watches a volleyball game from 1969 ( whether on grass, sand, gym floor ) to that of of a volleyball game from 2009, the game is primarily the same, with only minor changes in the sport. However, if one watches a typical Drum and Bugle Corps in 1969 and that of ( say ) Teal Sound of 2009, one can readily see the changes in the activity is much more transformative in both degree and magnitude. The judging caption definitions have changed. The instrumentation used has changed. The concept of what constitutes great " General Effect " in 2009 is entirely different from what constitutes great " General Effect " in 1969. The rules of ( say ) volleyball have undergone no radical transformations such as this. Drum Corps changes from 1969 to 2009 can not be compared in degree to the much smaller changes in the games of volleyball, or baseball..... NOW, if volleyball introduced TWO nets into their sport, a much bigger ball, etc... and baseball introduced a FOURTH base a runner would have to run around in their sport, a 4th strike a pitcher has to get on a batter, etc then you'd have me on board that THESE changes are very comparable to the changes Drum Corps has undergone in the last 40 years.

Edited December 17, 2009 by BRASSO

[JimF-LowBari]

Baseball may have grown world wide but it has turned to crap in my area since the 60s far as the youth (Little League, Legion ball , etc) are concerned. Same goes for Boy/Girl Scouts, church activities and other things. Goes with "Bowling Alone" mentioned above. Main reasons are costs and lack of volunteers due to the fact that it's a lower income area and lot of parents who would volunteer are working two jobs or weekends to make ends meet.

Pop Warner type football and soccer have grown since the 60s but they were non-existant then.

Edit: If Santa gets me a gift card for Borders, Barnes & Noble or Amazon this year I'll have to get "Bowling Alone". Was is a group studying why attendance in our city based church was down and what could be done. Lutheran synod sent in an expert on the matter and the truth wasn't pretty or reversable. Sounds like we heard a lot of info covered in "Bowling Alone". (Sounds like a new thread after I read it...)

Edited December 18, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari

[glory]

If your position is that the game of volleyball played in ( say ) 1969 has changed in 40 years comparable to the changes in Drum Corps from ( say ) 1969, to that of today, then we are simply going to have to disagree. If one watches a volleyball game from 1969 ( whether on grass, sand, gym floor ) to that of of a volleyball game from 2009, the game is primarily the same, with only minor changes in the sport.

In volleyball in 1969, you couldn't score if your team hadn't served. That's one of several important changes that distinguish the sport from today, much as drum corps has evolved.

I won't list the other changes not because they don't matter but because they're beside the point. The point is the world around volleyball and drum corps has changed and the two activities have changed with it. Right now, the women's NCAA volleyball final four is under way without a single California team. Much as in drum corps, the sport has become more national and less local. It is responding to different dynamics and yielding different results.

HH

[HornsUp]

Possibly, not much different. Had the corps not stepped forward to organize DCA and DCI, another entity such as a judging organization or show sponsor (i.e. World Open/Drum Corps News/Fleetwood) would likely have grown into a similar agency. Or, perhaps a drum corps insider would have ascended to power within the AL or VFW within a few more years, and enacted the type of changes the corps sought. And there are other scenarios....

In any case, most of the same improvements could have taken place....and most of the same mistakes could have been made as well.

Tony Schlecta WAS a drum corps insider who ascended to power within the VFW. In the early 50s he was a bigwig in the All-American judging association, and served as chief judge for numerous Midwestern corps contests.