Achilles Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) I know I'm an old schooler but I just can't see how the Legion or VFW had any infrastructureto attempt to market Drum Corps on a national level. I know I have not agreed with DCI at times but at least there ARE Corps to show for it. I'm equally enthusiastic for DCA.......May they continue to prosper and grow. -Bill Hmmm.....did you say 'market'? I don't think the concept of 'marketing' even existed back in the day, let alone for junior drum and bugle corps. Sure, there was a fan base so to speak...but to focus TV, radio, print or Internet (hah!) advertising, promotional materials, merchandise, 'brand recognition' at those fans, for a single a drum corps, or the activity as a whole, in a coordinated, systematic and disciplined manner...well, those concepts were probably well beyond most veterans organizations and their funding capabilties. I think they did OK for what they knew. These days, DCI has the NFL, the NBA, MLB, the Premier League, etc. etc. to model themselves after. The sports franchise model is a good one. Edited December 20, 2009 by Achilles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is a recording of '75 Blue Rock from that Corning show you mentioned. You are always full of surprises Ken. Unless you told me this before (which is possible). LOL, week before DCA and the Red Carpet Assoc had it's championship the same night at Hamilton, Ont. Ended up half of the Coring show was "other" corps like Blue Rock, Westshoremen and Interstatesmen. First show Westshoremen actually beat someone since they reformed a year ago. (Reason why it's memorible to me.) Oh well time to shovel the white stuff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Hmmm.....did you say 'market'? I don't think the concept of 'marketing' even existed back in the day, let alone for junior drum and bugle corps. Sure, there was a fan base so to speak...but to focus TV, radio, print or Internet (hah!) advertising, promotional materials, merchandise, 'brand recognition' at those fans, for a single a drum corps, or the activity as a whole, in a coordinated, systematic and disciplined manner...well, those concepts were probably well beyond most veterans organizations and their funding capabilties.I think they did OK for what they knew. These days, DCI has the NFL, the NBA, MLB, the Premier League, etc. etc. to model themselves after. The sports franchise model is a good one. VFW and AL marketing for Drum and Bugle Corps entailed pictures and write ups of some of the Corps in their magazines that went out to all Members of these veteran organizations. Their National Championship competition almost always was in conjunction with their National Convention. ( not always Corps friendly, as the venue might be in the State of Washington or in the month of September for instance ) Since the National Championship was in conjunction with the Convention, the organization ( and the Corps ) could be assured of a good sized crowd at Championships. There were also over a half dozen monthly Drum Corps subscription newspaper publications ( and a few localized radio shows )devoted to Drum and Bugle Corps that promoted and covered extensively the VFW and AL National Championships. Edited December 21, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flugelswerebugels Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 ...not always Corps friendly, as the venue might be in the State of Washington ... At least DCI solved that problem for you by avoiding the entire west coast for all but one year of its existence. Maybe if VFW/AL still ran things we'd get a championship show out here once every ten years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 If the VFW were still running things...Nationals in 2010 would be held in...Indianapolis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Drum corps would not be the relatively large niche activity it is today.For many years corps was the driving force in innovation , and marching bands would follow their lead. It seems that these roles have reversed in recent years. Further morphing together may render the distinction between corps ( bugle band ) and band. One thing for sure , the debate between objective and subjective would never have come to be. Tony Schlecta ( sp? ) had fewer venues to attend! To be truthful, both have always had some influence on each other depending on the era. Marching Bands were first in doing field shows. Corps were first in using squad drills (like Ohio State sill does today). Casovant first wrote hos unique drill for bands. Of course, you're correct in that drum corps definitely seems to have had more influence on bands during the 70's through the mid-90's. Today, there are so many people who work with both drum corps and bands that the lines are more blurred. Since the rules for bands are less stringent than drum corps, designers are able to experiment more with bands (and winter guards and indoor drumlines). Many of those experiments make thier way onto the field with a drum corps. And frankly, some of the powerhouse bands are better than many drum corps. Whether one likes that kind of show design aside, there are some significant shows being put out by today's marching bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) To be truthful, both have always had some influence on each other depending on the era. Marching Bands were first in doing field shows. Corps were first in using squad drills (like Ohio State sill does today). Casovant first wrote hos unique drill for bands. Of course, you're correct in that drum corps definitely seems to have had more influence on bands during the 70's through the mid-90's. Today, there are so many people who work with both drum corps and bands that the lines are more blurred. Since the rules for bands are less stringent than drum corps, designers are able to experiment more with bands (and winter guards and indoor drumlines). Many of those experiments make thier way onto the field with a drum corps. And frankly, some of the powerhouse bands are better than many drum corps. Whether one likes that kind of show design aside, there are some significant shows being put out by today's marching bands. Agree on the band and DC in the 70s/80s bit (didn't stick around for the 90s). Central PA band shows we could play the "what MB staff member belongs to what DC" game. And I caught hell at my sisters last MB contest in 1984 from one of the band parents. I was yelling something to a staff member of another band (ex-corps mate) and was told "You're supposed to yell for OUR band". I told her I yell for for my friends. Later another ex-corps mate (Jeff Reams dad) ended up sitting next to my parents and myself while the band he was working with was on. Should have seen the look we got on THAT one. But will have to correct one thing... it's Casavant. No problem, but I had A. R. Casavants son Charles as a band director one one year of marching at college. Ol' Charlie wrote one helluva DC type drill and refused to have a band bigger than 150 members. Reason was: "Too many people get in the way of MY drill". Irony is I think yesterday was 30 years to the day since I graduated from college. or is it Edited December 23, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumbline Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Many of returning Vets from Vietnam felt they had little in common with the Vets from WW2 and Korea. The returning Vets from those wars came home to the public as conquering heros..... while the Vietnam Vets, despite winning most of the ground fighting had their Goverment call for retreat under public pressure, and these Vets came home to confusion, catcalls, chaos, etc during that time period.. As such, most of the Vietnam era Vets couldn't wait to put it all behind them and get on with their personal lives and careers. And so few of them joined the AL and VFW posts. Then in the 80's early 90's, some of the returning Vets in these decades did join as members of some of the VFW's and AL's Posts until we saw a peak membership in the late 90's. It has essentially been an ebb and flow of membership since WW1. But with the membership numbers decidedly more on a downward curve. I agree. As a former VFW member, the atmosphere in many of the posts toward Vietnam Vets was a feeling that they "did not win", but also , there was another factor among a sizable portion of the membership. The majority of members were WWII and Korean War vets, and the age group was a factor! Many simply did not want the younger people and their dress style, their music, and their attitudes invading the mindset, the bar, or meetings. They were a definable and age associated group. That being said, the VFW was a lot more accomodating than the American Legion. In relation to drumcorps? These days, not enough corps members would pass inspection to get the corps off the starting line. haircuts,shaving, mustard stains etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I agree. As a former VFW member, the atmosphere in many of the posts toward Vietnam Vets was a feeling that they "did not win", but also , there was another factor among a sizable portion of the membership. The majority of members were WWII and Korean War vets, and the age group was a factor!Many simply did not want the younger people and their dress style, their music, and their attitudes invading the mindset, the bar, or meetings. They were a definable and age associated group. That being said, the VFW was a lot more accomodating than the American Legion. In relation to drumcorps? These days, not enough corps members would pass inspection to get the corps off the starting line. haircuts,shaving, mustard stains etc. "Mustard Stains etc" Drum corps of the 40's, 50's, 60's and up to the "October Surprise" of 1971 that founded DCI, was pretty well a "Military" marching and manuvering event, complete with "Inspection", "Cadence", "Color Presentations", and "Retreat" (Which corresponded roughly to a militray "Saturday Parade"), with the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars the "Governing" bodies. Surprisningly (And this has been mentioned before) the "Activity" GREW!!!!! It was by no means "Perfect" (The VFW "Strongman", Tony Schlecta, was said to "Pick the Winner" in advance, of several of the VFW's National Championships), but it provided a reasonbly affordable year round (Most winter "Individual" contests were held in Legion or VFW posts) music program that a very great many people participated in, and resulted in a huge number of drum & bugle corps. Sadly, almost all of this has "Gone Away". The VFW & Legion (With the exception of the AL's "Senior" Orange Flag), have nothing to do with drum corps, and many of their Posts, as well as most of the junior drum corps, no longer exist. Long time passing.... Elphaba WWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I've had girlfriends say the same thing. You've had girlfriends? Garry in Vegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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