Lets discuss

[cabalumnidrummer]

On the very local, small corps level, it has been the same story. In the NYC Metro area and Long Island, standstill corps used to number well above fifty. Today there are maybe four or five left, and most of those are struggling to survive. For over forty years I have been involved in teaching many them. This is where I came from.

As a longtime instructor of some of these small corps, I can share with you just some of the reasons I have experienced first hand in the decline of membership and interest: expanded local sports programs that kids decided were more 'fun;' the advent of electronic and computer games, whose 'instant gratification' became far more attractive and rewarding than practicing an instrument; the increased pressure of parents for their kids to perform well in school; the loss of cooperation and support from sponsoring schools and parishes; and finally, the cost of belonging vs. perceived value and/or benefit.

I'm not saying these are the only reasons, but they are contributing factors to our local activity's decline. I would guess some of these are also part of the reason for the decline overall on the local field corps level. DCI corps have their own unique problems, but I would not be at all surprised if some of these things have affected them also.

[Fran Haring]

What killed all those local drum corps?

The salmon mousse.

Fran

[Fran Haring]

Seriously, John.... you make some very good points. Kids today have a lot of options for their free time.

Fran

[KeithHall]

Video games, computer, hanging out at night with their friends, driving around in mom and dad's car with no particular agenda, Myspace, etc. Yea they have a lot to do. LOL

Seriously, John.... you make some very good points. Kids today have a lot of options for their free time.

Fran

[MilesandCassius]

Back in '81, my first corps had 16 horns and 14 of us played. It was a great time to be sure, but watching the "big boys" made me want to do drum corps at that level. My only option was to move up. So I did, and had an incredible experience in open class for 3 years. It was the only way I was able to get my marching mojo met, if you will. Today, I think the level of expertise has gone up so incredibly that it's become an elitist activity. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The fact is that C, B, and even A class drum corps and the experience of marching at that level has largely been supplanted by marching bands. Marching band today is NOT the same activity it was 30 years ago. In fact, many, many marching bands today are on the calibre of the C, B, and A class corps of the late '70's and early 80's. Many marching bands at the highest level would easily make the top 25 of the lower classes. I would argue that there are in fact more young Americans in the marching arts today than at any time in the past. Not percentage wise, but just numbers. Marching band is huge nowadays. Now, is it the same as drum corps? No. The experience may not be as intense. But some programs are. Would I trade my class B experience for marching band? No. But for many young people, getting their marching mojo met is done at home, in the high school marching band. It's both a good thing and a bad thing. Everyone can do it. The performances are higher than they've ever been due to the talents of the staffs and the rich cultural history of the marching arts in total. Is it as comradre building as small local drum corps? I don't know. Certainly we all agree that there's something special about drum corps in particular because that's the reason we all communicate on this forum. I think all this is a big reason for the demise of the small corps. The niche has been filled by marching band which in turn is funded by the school committee making the finances a much easier issue.

[stein456]

Drum corps , especailly on the local or community level self destructed long ago for many, many reasons. Here are just a few:

LOSS OF DAY TIME COMPETITIONS: In the 50's and 60's early 70's, many stadiums had no lighting and most shows were in the afternoon. kids returned home before 8 PM or so. Parents were cool with that. Later, lighting was rented or many facilities accquired lighting; 12, 13 and 14 year olds were getting home at 2 AM. NOT COOL WITH MOST PARENTS.

AIR CONDITIONING AND COLOR TV: Sounds crazy? Even funny? Before these items appeared on the American scene, folks went outdoors to cool off and seek entertainment, (MAYBE A DRUM CORPS SHOW)? Ask yourself, ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT, how many times have you said to yourself ????.... "I JUST WANT TO GO HOME AND TURN ON THE AIR CONDITIONER AND VEG IN FRONT OF THE TUBE"!!!!! I'm not talking the about the drum corps fan, I'm refering to the lay person who might think it would be interesting to see music and marching skills and take a bus or a subway a few stops to expierience it.

PIT EQIUPMENT: In the community based drum corps era, horn cases, drum cases, flags went under the bus or up in the lugage rack. Maybe you had a small van for the extras and off you went. Larger instruments (tonal pegrcussion, contra/tubas, props) meant larger equipment to transport them and all its considerations: storage, gas prices, drivers (paid or unpaid) placed an unbeareble burden on most corps administrations. Pit equipment was a HUGE hit on most corps

SPONSORSHIP: The institutions that supported drum corps, the Catholic church, American Legion, VFW. experienced a "readjustment" in their membership as well as a massive shift in the population out of the inner cities, eroding their respective base and had a negative effect on drum corps membership. Gone were the days where "it's OK dear, the kids are with the church group drum corps" was a satisfactory answer.

CONTEST SPONSORS: Many drum corps contests were FUND RAISERS for local instituions: Fire dept, faternal orgs and so on. When drum corps prize structures priced themselves out of balance with these organizations those sponsors were GONE. Another huge beat down on local corps.

MONEY, MONEY ,MONEY: The constant upgrades in instrumentation, brass, percussion and guard, travel mandates, put many corps funraising efforts into an absurd joke. No longer were chance books, spagetti dinners, car washes, ect able to support the MASSIVE expenses incured by a local drum corps.

In many instances the fund rasing efforts of drum corps came into conflict with the institutions that sponsored them. ..... Guess what was expendable?

These are just a few things that did in drum corps, there's more, MUCH MORE. Why do a beat down? Most people know all this already.

I and my colleagues are forming two corps in the near future. One in North Jersey and one in Brooklyn NY. They will be locally sponsored and will remain LOCAL. THEY WILL SERVE YOUTH and will never fall prey to the out of control spending and impossible aspirations mandated by today's situation.

Wish me luck, stein

[KeithHall]

I like your thoughts! I don't agree totally with them but they are appreciated.

Everything evolves....education changes, the NFL, NHL and NBA change. I never heard parents complain about us coming home late. We actually would rather march in evening shows than day shows. The churches and fire departments were only able to finance so much and in the 1970's they started ending their support and groups either folded or found other ways to raise funds. My corps began Bingo in 1975 but that had to compete with 10 other places that had Bingo too.

I don't believe that pit equipment had anything to do with the demise of drum corps, it was part of the evolution. I agree that money is a huge factor

Drum corps , especailly on the local or community level self destructed long ago for many, many reasons. Here are just a few:

LOSS OF DAY TIME COMPETITIONS: In the 50's and 60's early 70's, many stadiums had no lighting and most shows were in the afternoon. kids returned home before 8 PM or so. Parents were cool with that. Later, lighting was rented or many facilities accquired lighting; 12, 13 and 14 year olds were getting home at 2 AM. NOT COOL WITH MOST PARENTS.

AIR CONDITIONING AND COLOR TV: Sounds crazy? Even funny? Before these items appeared on the American scene, folks went outdoors to cool off and seek entertainment, (MAYBE A DRUM CORPS SHOW)? Ask yourself, ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT, how many times have you said to yourself ????.... "I JUST WANT TO GO HOME AND TURN ON THE AIR CONDITIONER AND VEG IN FRONT OF THE TUBE"!!!!! I'm not talking the about the drum corps fan, I'm refering to the lay person who might think it would be interesting to see music and marching skills and take a bus or a subway a few stops to expierience it.

PIT EQIUPMENT: In the community based drum corps era, horn cases, drum cases, flags went under the bus or up in the lugage rack. Maybe you had a small van for the extras and off you went. Larger instruments (tonal pegrcussion, contra/tubas, props) meant larger equipment to transport them and all its considerations: storage, gas prices, drivers (paid or unpaid) placed an unbeareble burden on most corps administrations. Pit equipment was a HUGE hit on most corps

SPONSORSHIP: The institutions that supported drum corps, the Catholic church, American Legion, VFW. experienced a "readjustment" in their membership as well as a massive shift in the population out of the inner cities, eroding their respective base and had a negative effect on drum corps membership. Gone were the days where "it's OK dear, the kids are with the church group drum corps" was a satisfactory answer.

CONTEST SPONSORS: Many drum corps contests were FUND RAISERS for local instituions: Fire dept, faternal orgs and so on. When drum corps prize structures priced themselves out of balance with these organizations those sponsors were GONE. Another huge beat down on local corps.

MONEY, MONEY ,MONEY: The constant upgrades in instrumentation, brass, percussion and guard, travel mandates, put many corps funraising efforts into an absurd joke. No longer were chance books, spagetti dinners, car washes, ect able to support the MASSIVE expenses incured by a local drum corps.

In many instances the fund rasing efforts of drum corps came into conflict with the institutions that sponsored them. ..... Guess what was expendable?

These are just a few things that did in drum corps, there's more, MUCH MORE. Why do a beat down? Most people know all this already.

I and my colleagues are forming two corps in the near future. One in North Jersey and one in Brooklyn NY. They will be locally sponsored and will remain LOCAL. THEY WILL SERVE YOUTH and will never fall prey to the out of control spending and impossible aspirations mandated by today's situation.

Wish me luck, stein

[TennTux]

Good post Bobby...

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

Oh, GOOD LUCK!

Drum corps , especailly on the local or community level self destructed long ago for many, many reasons. Here are just a few:

LOSS OF DAY TIME COMPETITIONS: In the 50's and 60's early 70's, many stadiums had no lighting and most shows were in the afternoon. kids returned home before 8 PM or so. Parents were cool with that. Later, lighting was rented or many facilities accquired lighting; 12, 13 and 14 year olds were getting home at 2 AM. NOT COOL WITH MOST PARENTS.

AIR CONDITIONING AND COLOR TV: Sounds crazy? Even funny? Before these items appeared on the American scene, folks went outdoors to cool off and seek entertainment, (MAYBE A DRUM CORPS SHOW)? Ask yourself, ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT, how many times have you said to yourself ????.... "I JUST WANT TO GO HOME AND TURN ON THE AIR CONDITIONER AND VEG IN FRONT OF THE TUBE"!!!!! I'm not talking the about the drum corps fan, I'm refering to the lay person who might think it would be interesting to see music and marching skills and take a bus or a subway a few stops to expierience it.

PIT EQIUPMENT: In the community based drum corps era, horn cases, drum cases, flags went under the bus or up in the lugage rack. Maybe you had a small van for the extras and off you went. Larger instruments (tonal pegrcussion, contra/tubas, props) meant larger equipment to transport them and all its considerations: storage, gas prices, drivers (paid or unpaid) placed an unbeareble burden on most corps administrations. Pit equipment was a HUGE hit on most corps

SPONSORSHIP: The institutions that supported drum corps, the Catholic church, American Legion, VFW. experienced a "readjustment" in their membership as well as a massive shift in the population out of the inner cities, eroding their respective base and had a negative effect on drum corps membership. Gone were the days where "it's OK dear, the kids are with the church group drum corps" was a satisfactory answer.

CONTEST SPONSORS: Many drum corps contests were FUND RAISERS for local instituions: Fire dept, faternal orgs and so on. When drum corps prize structures priced themselves out of balance with these organizations those sponsors were GONE. Another huge beat down on local corps.

MONEY, MONEY ,MONEY: The constant upgrades in instrumentation, brass, percussion and guard, travel mandates, put many corps funraising efforts into an absurd joke. No longer were chance books, spagetti dinners, car washes, ect able to support the MASSIVE expenses incured by a local drum corps.

In many instances the fund rasing efforts of drum corps came into conflict with the institutions that sponsored them. ..... Guess what was expendable?

These are just a few things that did in drum corps, there's more, MUCH MORE. Why do a beat down? Most people know all this already.

I and my colleagues are forming two corps in the near future. One in North Jersey and one in Brooklyn NY. They will be locally sponsored and will remain LOCAL. THEY WILL SERVE YOUTH and will never fall prey to the out of control spending and impossible aspirations mandated by today's situation.

Wish me luck, stein

[Ray Priester]

Drum corps , especailly on the local or community level self destructed long ago for many, many reasons. Here are just a few:

LOSS OF DAY TIME COMPETITIONS: In the 50's and 60's early 70's, many stadiums had no lighting and most shows were in the afternoon. kids returned home before 8 PM or so. Parents were cool with that. Later, lighting was rented or many facilities accquired lighting; 12, 13 and 14 year olds were getting home at 2 AM. NOT COOL WITH MOST PARENTS.

AIR CONDITIONING AND COLOR TV: Sounds crazy? Even funny? Before these items appeared on the American scene, folks went outdoors to cool off and seek entertainment, (MAYBE A DRUM CORPS SHOW)? Ask yourself, ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT, how many times have you said to yourself ????.... "I JUST WANT TO GO HOME AND TURN ON THE AIR CONDITIONER AND VEG IN FRONT OF THE TUBE"!!!!! I'm not talking the about the drum corps fan, I'm refering to the lay person who might think it would be interesting to see music and marching skills and take a bus or a subway a few stops to expierience it.

PIT EQIUPMENT: In the community based drum corps era, horn cases, drum cases, flags went under the bus or up in the lugage rack. Maybe you had a small van for the extras and off you went. Larger instruments (tonal pegrcussion, contra/tubas, props) meant larger equipment to transport them and all its considerations: storage, gas prices, drivers (paid or unpaid) placed an unbeareble burden on most corps administrations. Pit equipment was a HUGE hit on most corps

SPONSORSHIP: The institutions that supported drum corps, the Catholic church, American Legion, VFW. experienced a "readjustment" in their membership as well as a massive shift in the population out of the inner cities, eroding their respective base and had a negative effect on drum corps membership. Gone were the days where "it's OK dear, the kids are with the church group drum corps" was a satisfactory answer.

CONTEST SPONSORS: Many drum corps contests were FUND RAISERS for local instituions: Fire dept, faternal orgs and so on. When drum corps prize structures priced themselves out of balance with these organizations those sponsors were GONE. Another huge beat down on local corps.

MONEY, MONEY ,MONEY: The constant upgrades in instrumentation, brass, percussion and guard, travel mandates, put many corps funraising efforts into an absurd joke. No longer were chance books, spagetti dinners, car washes, ect able to support the MASSIVE expenses incured by a local drum corps.

In many instances the fund rasing efforts of drum corps came into conflict with the institutions that sponsored them. ..... Guess what was expendable?

These are just a few things that did in drum corps, there's more, MUCH MORE. Why do a beat down? Most people know all this already.

I and my colleagues are forming two corps in the near future. One in North Jersey and one in Brooklyn NY. They will be locally sponsored and will remain LOCAL. THEY WILL SERVE YOUTH and will never fall prey to the out of control spending and impossible aspirations mandated by today's situation.

Wish me luck, stein

Good post, Bob. I agree. I'm sure there are other factors, but those are all very true. Best of luck with the new corps, both of them.

Ray

[BRASSO]

I guess we can beat this to death BUT......

What caused the death of so many corps? Why did the state of NY go from 30 + corps to NOTHING? Why has Canada (Toronto area) go from 3 DCI finalists to a couple small corps? How did NJ lose so many corps?

I have heard the excuses, bad corps directors, blah, blah, blah. There's got to be more to this right? DCI's failure to serve all corps and to continue the regional avenue. Did/do DCI executives make a good living? I mean, they give up careers to do this full-time right traveling around the country all year long.

Since this is the boring time of year I thought I would toss this in the fire and see what happens. Everyone has an opinion, was there and in-the-know (or so they think). I think DCP members who were teenagers in the 70's will have a better recollection than the newer members but welcome all comments.

Have fun and don't get nasty toward me or anyone else ok?

1) the National Touring Model adopted by DCI was financally unsustainable for many Corps. Prior to 70's, Corps were predominently local Corps that competed locally, and then perhaps went on one... maybe 2.... long trips in a summer to a " Nationals " competition ( VFW, AL, Shriners, CYO, World Open, etc ). DCI was the first organization to send Corps criss crossing the country for weeks on end. Too many Corps ended the summer in debt, especially when gas prices went way up in the mid 70's.

2) Once DCI Corps went on national summer competition tours, they left behind their local circuit associations, and these circuit competitons. Without these marquee corps competing each weekend, the local state circuit associations slowly but surely collapsed.

3) Corps lost sponsorships...... VFW, AL, Churches that once financially supported Drum Corps began to stop sponsorships as members and officers of Corps increasingly distant themselves from these organizations for a myriad of reasons, some financial, some cultural, some spiritual. ( ie parents and directors were no longer members of VFW, AL, marchers no longer members of parish and so forth.

4) The Draft.....there was a sysmic shift in the country from 1960 to 1969. Kids who marched until they were 21 early in the decade were lost to the military draft by the late 60's with the insitution of the miltary draft due to the buildup of the Vietnam War......Patriotism in the country was high in the early 60s, but suffered greatly by the late 60s. Drum Corps that were once very military like began to change in style, and several Corps directors wanted to leave the VFW, AL umbrella and strike out on their own.

5) Bingo halls give way to Casinos....... in the 60's, 70's. many Corps made their money from bingo hall receipts. But Bingo Hall attendance fell, as Casino's became the rage, and with it, Corps lost traditional funding sources.

6) shift in the demographics...... prior to the inception of DCI, most marchers in Corps were not musically trained. They came right off the streets and marched. They worked during the week, practiced at night an on weekends they either practiced or competed in local shows near their home with their Corps. Many did not need to pay exhoritant summer tour fees. Once DCI embraced the national touring model however, many less affluent kids found that they could not afford to take off 9 weeks in the summer to do Drum Corps 24-7. Most had to work in the summer. So Corps began to move out to the suburbs and with that, a smaller pool of kids were available to march in fewer and fewer corps.

7) failure of DCI to make " growth in the number of Corps and marchers in the activity" a priority. There has never been a word about " growth " in the Mission Statement of DCI. Not in 1972.... not in 1992..... not in 2010. If " growth of the activity " is not a priority in any enterprise, why would one be surprised to find out later that there has been no " growth " in that enterprise ? DCI has never seen as it's responsibility to " grow the acivity ". This is unlike an other organization one could think of where " growth of the activity " is not on the organization's radar screen.

8) other youth activity competition..... kids in the 60's spent most of their time out of doors. Once we got to the 70's and later years, kids could entertain themselves indoors with computers and such . Drum Corps found themselves competing with youth soccer, hockey, basktball, ..... and later with band..... to get kids to do Drum Corps..... and they found it became more of a losing battle.

9) big was seen as better..... Corps were shrinking in number while at the same time, Corps were getting bigger in terms of number marchers in these units.. Big Corps ate the small Corps by taking their most talented members. Unlike the NCAA, Drum Corps has no release restrictions on transfers. So kids left the smaller corps, and some died this way.At the same time, kids now were not from the same community, they were increasingly from all over the world. When this occured, the local community no longer recognized the Corps, as fewer and fewer were from that community. Then later, Corps began to use props in their shows. These props were large and required larger trucks, which in turn cost more in travel costs. The bigs suvived, but most of the smaller units got squashed with these extra travel costs. Most went bankrupt.

Anyway, these are some of the many reasons why Drum Corps died and for all intents and purpoes has slowly but surely been absorbed into what increasingly has become marching band with each passing year.

Edited January 10, 2010 by BRASSO