Hindsight

[drumno5]

...drum corps, which ... was based on using instruments already battle-tested and selected by the military as most effective for field use.

I have great respect for the rich history and deep roots of the activity. But I think maybe you're going just a little over the top with this one.

peace,

Fred O.

[j.morgus]

Any argument that doesn't take into account the intense growth of competitive high school band is missing the biggest element of the story. Why should Justin Blow's parents be interested in spending $500-1000 a year (could anyone really offer a local corps part-time experience for less?) when the school band program is there, gets him (as far as they're concerned) the same experience, and is more or less cost-free?

You mention that some youth programs have grown - absolutely correct. And one that grew the fastest is one that is a DIRECT competitor to local drum corps.

That is all well and good for "Justin Blow", but what about Timmy from the other side of town who's school isn't able to afford "luxuries" like instruments and additional instructors to field a competitive band? His school program isn't there. In the days of church and scout corps, Timmy would have had a chance at the corps experience, even when his school couldn't provide it. Until every student has the opportunity to choose where he goes to school, and/or all schools are able to provide extra-curricular options like a competitive band, school bands are not the "same experience".

[MikeD]

And this is likewise what happened to all the local circuits once the marquee Corps left for DCI. The local circuits quickly collapsed and died. And the remaining Corps had nowhere else to go..... but to DCI.

In NJ, the Garden State Circuit was the primary local circuit for the smaller corps...once a corps got to 'A' class they left the circuit...not DCI's fault. That was the progression, like going from Open to World class today.

[MikeD]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Ironically, though, that is how DCI operates now. Look at today's activity, with DCI evaluating corps so that their participation review committee can gauge what operating model (i.e. open-class, world-class, full tour vs. limited tour) is sustainable for a given corps. I take it that you disagree with current DCI practice, then?

No, that's a great practice.

Back in the 70's a corps might do one or two DCI-sanctioned shows without having any expectation of joining DCI. Marching prelims at champs because it was close is hardly the same as what corps do today.

All involved parties should be responsible. That means both the individual corps and DCI. Clearly, DCI wasn't being as responsible as they should have been (IMO) in the early years, when they actively encouraged corps to travel outside of their comfort zones and promoted unsustainable operating models. Today's DCI takes their responsibility much more seriously. We can still debate the sustainability of today's models (especially open-class), but there's no question that DCI is making an effort to make things work at all levels....in stark contrast to 35 years ago.

If a corps agreed to tour beyond it's means, how was that DCI's fault?

Oh? Who's fault is it, then, when DCI tells all their member corps to boycott a show?

DCI corps deciding to focus on DCI shows is not a boycott.

[BRASSO]

In NJ, the Garden State Circuit was the primary local circuit for the smaller corps...once a corps got to 'A' class they left the circuit...not DCI's fault. That was the progression, like going from Open to World class today.

In the Midwest and in New England, Corps used to compete in their local circuits. Prior to DCI they did not leave once they advanced up the ladder cometitively. For example, once Corps like Boston, 27th, North Star joined DCI and went on national tours with DCI, it became impossible for them to remain in their Emass Circuit competitons. Once they left, the crowds dwindled locally at Emass competitions, revenues suffered, and the end was in sight for the circuit once these marquee Corps were no longer the draw. DCI did not plan for this to happen. But to suggest that DCI's actions did not have a very negative impact on many circuit associations around the country would be both naive as well as historically inaccurate.

[MikeD]

In the Midwest and in New England, Corps used to compete in their local circuits. Prior to DCI they did not leave once they advanced up the ladder cometitively. For example, once Corps like Boston, 27th, North Star joined DCI and went on national tours with DCI, it became impossible for them to remain in their Emass Circuit competitons. Once they left, the crowds dwindled locally at Emass competitions, revenues suffered, and the end was in sight for the circuit once these marquee Corps were no longer the draw. DCI did not plan for this to happen. But to suggest that DCI's actions did not have a very negative impact on many circuit associations around the country would be both naive as well as historically inaccurate.

IMO saying DCI caused these circuits to fail is historically inaccurate. We competed against 27th and Boston in my day, and they travelled down to NJ. We'd see them very often all over the East, so how many local circuit shows were they doing?

[Marianne]

Blue Knights, Citations, Oregon Crusaders and Mandarins were around back then too.

Also, there were many, many more corps that died since 72 than INSIDETHEFORTY listed.

"Corps die, corps are resurrected, new corps begin." For every 20 or more that die 1 new one begins, some circle of life.

You beat me to it. I was going to point out at least BK, then add check my signature if you have any doubt.

[JimF-LowBari]

DCI corps deciding to focus on DCI shows is not a boycott.

But it would be taking (appearance/prize) money away from a corps if they do not attend a show on a free day. And it should be the corps decision only what to attend.

Sounds like the info I saw on DCM but never did hear the details first hand.

Edited January 14, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari

[audiodb]

I have great respect for the rich history and deep roots of the activity. But I think maybe you're going just a little over the top with this one.

The basis of drum corps (circa 1919) was using bugles, drums and flags, chosen because they were the three most effective military signaling devices in history up until then. That's all I was trying to convey.

[audiodb]

No, that's a great practice.

So it's great that DCI practices responsible tour advocacy now, but you have no problem that they didn't for their first 30 years? That is inconsistent, to say the least.

Back in the 70's a corps might do one or two DCI-sanctioned shows without having any expectation of joining DCI. Marching prelims at champs because it was close is hardly the same as what corps do today.

In what way? There are still corps in today's activity that just do the handful of shows that are close to home, and there are plenty of corps that participate in DCI without expecting to become member corps (that's called "open-class"). So what's the difference?

If a corps agreed to tour beyond it's means, how was that DCI's fault?

Again, it's not entirely DCI's fault, but....when DCI actively encouraged corps to tour beyond their means, they became part of the problem.

DCI corps deciding to focus on DCI shows is not a boycott.

Oh, please. There was no DCI show to focus on the day of the 1972 World Open. A number of DCI corps had intended to participate in World Open and several other nearby shows, until disputes broke out between the sponsor of those shows (Drum Corps News/Fleetwood) and DCI concerning use of approved judges and recording rights to DCI corps. When DCN/Fleetwood refused to give in to DCI's demands, the DCI corps boycotted the whole series of DCN-sponsored shows. They didn't develop any additional DCI shows to replace them....they just sat out those days.