turn down the synths

[Bruckner8]

Your logic seems slightly flawed to me. What if the arranger doesn't intend for a voice to be heard during a specific passage? Or maybe heard but with the emphasis on another voice?

The don't write a part for it.

This is one of the silliest questions I've ever seen on DCP. I can't imagine sitting at my desk, writing or arranging a piece, about to give notes to the Tubas, and think "I don't intend for this to be heard."

Emphasis is all about balance and blend. I'd respect BD and Madison more if they'd just stop using contras and quit pretending. But they sound nice for soft passages and walking bass moments (ie, playing in the holes), so they still use them. AND THAT'S FINE! I LOVE THOSE LICKS! I'm GLAD THEY USED THEM!

But the judges should be literally SLAMMING THEM in Ensemble Music for the passages where contras are playing, but not heard. Trust me, I've done the experiment: "Contras, don't play here, but act like u are" or "Contras, play these notes instead, and let's see if anyone can tell the difference."

Nope. So you have a few choices from such revelations:

-) Back down the ensemble

-) Change the staging

-) Add more players (not just limited to contras, although they're the first to go)

-) Rewrite the music (and maybe just take the contras off of that part...why blow your ##### off when you won't be heard anyway?)

The synths practically make the contras pointless if designers insist on doubling them, turning it up "to 11."

I love synths under these condictions:

-) octave BELOW the contras (but still not overpowering them)

-) Used for colors not normally available (and still within good ensemble)

[BlooContraGuy]

Your logic seems slightly flawed to me. What if the arranger doesn't intend for a voice to be heard during a specific passage?

Then they won't write a part for that voice.

The don't write a part for it.

This is one of the silliest questions I've ever seen on DCP. I can't imagine sitting at my desk, writing or arranging a piece, about to give notes to the Tubas, and think "I don't intend for this to be heard."

Emphasis is all about balance and blend. I'd respect BD and Madison more if they'd just stop using contras and quit pretending. But they sound nice for soft passages and walking bass moments (ie, playing in the holes), so they still use them. AND THAT'S FINE! I LOVE THOSE LICKS! I'm GLAD THEY USED THEM!

But the judges should be literally SLAMMING THEM in Ensemble Music for the passages where contras are playing, but not heard. Trust me, I've done the experiment: "Contras, don't play here, but act like u are" or "Contras, play these notes instead, and let's see if anyone can tell the difference."

Nope. So you have a few choices from such revelations:

-) Back down the ensemble

-) Change the staging

-) Add more players (not just limited to contras, although they're the first to go)

-) Rewrite the music (and maybe just take the contras off of that part...why blow your ##### off when you won't be heard anyway?)

The synths practically make the contras pointless if designers insist on doubling them, turning it up "to 11."

I love synths under these condictions:

-) octave BELOW the contras (but still not overpowering them)

-) Used for colors not normally available (and still within good ensemble)

I was going to say "Well just don't write a part that you don't want to be heard!" but it appears I was beaten to it... twice.

And Bruckner, I'd like to provide an example for the "turned up to 11" point you made:

I can distinctly remember the synth being to loud (at least...IMO) at the end of the Bluecoats opener, "Children's Hour Of Dream"

The synth was playing the pedal Bb, but so loud that it overpowered the hornline and just plain didn't sound good in a football stadium. In the gym we first practiced it in, it sounded #### cool, and it shook the place... but it just didn't transfer to real performance scenarios.

I also happen to agree with your conditions for synth use. The Blue Devils used a piano patch for a lick that the tubas came in and doubled after a few measures of solo "piano." Could anyone hear the tubas without straining to find them in the huge synth sound? NO! There was NO BALANCE at all! I remember hearing some of the BD horn line members wondering why so many corps were trying to go to 16 man tuba lines. One thing I remember them saying was that they didn't need the extra people for their low end. That their tubas were "man enough" to handle the load. I agree, but only because they are never heard anyway! So why add people to a section that won't be heard? (I exaggerate, they can be heard when no one else is playing)

That is all.

[MaestroBen]

I love synths under these conditions:

-) octave BELOW the contras (but still not overpowering them)

This is a really interesting idea...something that I don't think I've yet heard, but -- as long as they don't have the synths turned up to '11' -- I'd probably be OK with.

As someone who plays organs in churches on a fairly regular basis, it reminds me of a fairly recent development in organ design. 32' stops* are huge, and take up lots of space; you don't really hear them, when they're played with the rest of the instrument, but they add a whole lot of umph to your bass. The effect of turning on a good 32' stop is about like adding a good subwoofer to your sound system. You don't really hear that much difference, but the effect is very much improved. Now, many churches just don't have room for a 32' set of pipes in their organs. But, with the advent of good digital recording/reproduction, it's fairly easy to add a digital 32' 'stop.' Again, since you don't really hear it on its own, the sound quality isn't vitally important, but the presence of some sound in those frequencies helps a lot.

Since we don't have brass instruments capable of playing in that range (an octave below the contras), putting that sound in the synths might work.

A problem I have with synth sound is that it all comes from the front of the ensemble, while contras are often in the back. What if one were to put the speakers for the contra-doubling synth on the back sideline?

*32' definition: Organ stops are based on the length of pipe required for a middle 'c'. The 'normal' stop (the stop that would sound at the same pitch as a middle 'c' on a piano) is 8'. 16' is an octave lower, 32' is an octave lower than 16'.

[charphar]

"Turn DOWN the synths"?!?!?!

How about...

"Turn OFF the synths!!!!!"

Wait...I meant...

"Turn OFF the #&%*#*(#) synths!!!!!!!"

[Penn State]

"Turn DOWN the synths"?!?!?!

How about...

"Turn OFF the synths!!!!!"

Wait...I meant...

"Turn OFF the #&%*#*(#) synths!!!!!!!"

AGREED!!!! that would be the quickest, easiest, and cheapiest way to solve this problem. IMO, a drum corps should be able to perform their show with out needing an on the field energy source for electricity.

[FHdork]

<Your logic seems slightly flawed to me. What if the arranger doesn't intend for a voice to be heard during a specific passage? Or maybe heard but with the emphasis on another voice?>

I LOVE this quote! This used to happen ALL THE TIME in the 70s...and we had no way to fix the problem. Until Joe Schmo - that brilliant 3rd baritone for the Flagstaff Foulups (trust me, that's not what WE called them...) came up with the perfect solution:

To "Pook" - it's a verb - it means, "to retrieve the mouthpiece from a weak or ineffectual player, then to stoop down, jamming the shank into the soft earth, the action of which emits a soft sound - a "Pook". The mouthpiece is then replaced into the musicia...marcher's receiver, and they are kindly wished: "You march a good show, now!"

Everything old is new again...and you all thought the young kids of today just don't 'get' classic drum corps!

[Slow Adam]

I love synths under these condictions:

-) octave BELOW the contras (but still not overpowering them)

This is a really interesting idea...something that I don't think I've yet heard, but -- as long as they don't have the synths turned up to '11' -- I'd probably be OK with.

The epic SCV company front from this past year...synth octave below contras, turned to 11. It kinda ruins the moment.

At first I was then after seeing it live I was like

[Bruckner8]

This is a really interesting idea...something that I don't think I've yet heard, but -- as long as they don't have the synths turned up to '11' -- I'd probably be OK with.

As someone who plays organs in churches on a fairly regular basis, it reminds me of a fairly recent development in organ design. 32' stops* are huge, and take up lots of space; you don't really hear them, when they're played with the rest of the instrument, but they add a whole lot of umph to your bass. The effect of turning on a good 32' stop is about like adding a good subwoofer to your sound system. You don't really hear that much difference, but the effect is very much improved. Now, many churches just don't have room for a 32' set of pipes in their organs. But, with the advent of good digital recording/reproduction, it's fairly easy to add a digital 32' 'stop.' Again, since you don't really hear it on its own, the sound quality isn't vitally important, but the presence of some sound in those frequencies helps a lot.

Since we don't have brass instruments capable of playing in that range (an octave below the contras), putting that sound in the synths might work.

A problem I have with synth sound is that it all comes from the front of the ensemble, while contras are often in the back. What if one were to put the speakers for the contra-doubling synth on the back sideline?

*32' definition: Organ stops are based on the length of pipe required for a middle 'c'. The 'normal' stop (the stop that would sound at the same pitch as a middle 'c' on a piano) is 8'. 16' is an octave lower, 32' is an octave lower than 16'.

Now we're getting somewhere! I too am fond of 32' Organ Stops. Some corps used the 32' octave effectively (Bluecoats), but the problem is that the speakers they are using only go down to 30Hz (Yes, I read the specs). That's not even good enough for the lowest note on a piano, let alone the real 32' octave of an organ. Bloo used 32' G at the end of the show (originally), and it sounded "passable" since the Tubas were playing 1 and 2 octaves higher. (16' G and 8' G)

32' G is approx 25.5Hz...corps are going to need subwoofers that go to AT LEAST 16Hz if they want it to sound great.

Electronic Organ manufacturers have to order special speakers if they want 32' sounds of any convincing quality.

Your idea about putting the subs on the back sideline is right on!

and just for fun, one of my favorite internet examples of 32' Contra Trombone Stop:

I've heard that piece in York Minster, where the 32' Open Wood and 32' Principal are at floor level, and the 32' reed is just overhead. Amazing feeling.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Bruckner8

[Lance]

The only time I want to hear loud synths is if a corps does AxelF or the synth part for The Final Countdown.

[Slow Adam]

The only time I want to hear loud synths is if a corps does AxelF or the synth part for The Final Countdown.

...or the Super Mario Brothers underground theme.