Putting my cards on the table

[Rimba47]

Drum Corps will continue to decline and become more "elitist" until the entire activity wakes up and starts encouraging younger people to march. Rook-outs will not sustain the activity.

Okay, I see what you mean but I just want to clarify what kind of "younger people" you mean and what you mean by where they march. I say this because drum corps, I think, is becoming harder to get into because the standard of drum corps is getting higher. I think that is really good thing. It pushes the limits of what young adults can do and it creates an awesome product. In general younger people aren't as experienced so this increasing standard naturally pushes less experienced members down the drum corps ladder. But at the same time it doesn't exclude them from marching drum corps AT ALL. There is always a corps (whether in DCI or DCA) that would be more than happy to take a rookie 16 year old. So, encouraging "younger people" is great if they are being encouraged to participate in corps which fits their talent level and personal commitment standard.

Why can't we say the higher average placing corps are naturally more geared toward 18 - 21 year olds and the lower tiered corps are naturally geared toward younger people? Is that really such a bad thing? After all, it did just happen naturally as the competitive nature of drum corps increased. The competition is healthy and makes DCI better overall. IMO its fair because people can easily move from one tier to another. A guy who marched Pio in '08 can easily march Cadets in '09. A 15 year old who isn't "old enough" to march Blue Devils from a maturity stand point will be ready when he's 18. There are no barriers for entry into any corps IN THE LONG RUN so things are pretty healthy in that respect.

Also, if people have a tiff with DCI calling this a "Youth" activity then what else would you call an activity that has a cap at 21 years old? "Youth" is general term and can encompass a large group of people. IMO it perfectly encapsulates the age group that DCI is designed for. Calling it by any other name would be pointless and it would be petty argument on semantics. So, really there is no need in discussing the word play.

[Jeff Ream]

except Rimba, the cap is 22

[BozzlyB]

Are you looking at WC only or the Junior corps world as a whole?

What new corps in WC and OC have been created in the last 10 or so years that have stuck around? The new corps to WC that I can guess of have come from OC. The OC have some mainstay corps that have been around a while and being OC works for them. Other than that there is a mess with corps dropping out for a season or two... or three... On a whole I'd say OC is losing ground as some corps with stronger manager go to WC. I see corps coming and going but I don't see new corps staying.......

IMO some of the rules are hindering the creation of new corps.....

That's what I was talking about as well, sorry I wasn't more clear.

Edited February 3, 2010 by BozzlyB

[BRASSO]

Funny that you use cavies and crown as examples, considering that not only did crown beat them this past year, but cavies design staff has been ...um....changing a bit over the past 3-4 years. Then again, that may speak to your point anyway, unintentional as it was

We were talking about "TITLES " here..... as in" Kansas City Royals ( perennial MLB struggling franchise ) has even won a TITLE since 1979 ". Somehow that got lost in the translation.

Carolina Crown is a very good Corps. When and if they win a " TITLE ", we will add them to the list of then 8 Corps that will have won a DCI Title since 1979, as opposed to 17 in Major League Baseball since 1979 where it is MUCH easier to rise up and win a World Series TITLE despite little resources or capital. It is certainly easier to win a title in baseball with little money and resources than it it is for a Corps to win a DCI Title with little money and resources compared to the Elite 3 Corps of BD, Cadets and Cavs.. And the data and fact support this.

Bottom line..... Major League Baseball is often criticised that it's an unfair system as teams at the top spend way, WAY more than other teams. Yet it is ironic that MLB teams have a FAR greater chance of winning a Title with little resources than DCI units. While there is somewhat of a correlation to money and resources = Titles in MLB, there is a DIRECT correlation to money and resources = Titles in DCI. This is why there is MUCH greater parity in competition for Titles in MLB than there is in DCI by comparison.

Edited February 3, 2010 by BRASSO

[bluecoats88]

A couple of quick responses;

Just because a corps has 12 horns and 6 drums doesn't mean they SUCK. It means thier small. I don't know how many corps started with 128 members.

It mean their small what? or did you mean they're as in They are, not their as in possessing something small.

[The Other Mike]

It is possible to see problems and look for solutions without "ripping someone a new one." Just sayin'

For me ? Only when it's a group that gives it's time and energy to youth organizations for free.

[The Other Mike]

I never realized how much the english lanquage, especially in the written form, could be so entertaining.

Who dat ?

[The Other Mike]

A couple of quick responses;

Just because a corps has 12 horns and 6 drums doesn't mean they SUCK. It means thier small. I don't know how many corps started with 128 members.

Thats true, I SHOULD have said "many small corps that are bad, know they are bad".

I'm sorry.

[Blackstar]

It mean their small what? or did you mean they're as in They are, not their as in possessing something small.

Really Phil....Really? You didn't understand what I was getting at ....really?

[Plan9]

We were talking about "TITLES " here..... as in" Kansas City Royals ( perennial MLB struggling franchise ) has even won a TITLE since 1979 ". Somehow that got lost in the translation.

Carolina Crown is a very good Corps. When and if they win a " TITLE ", we will add them to the list of then 8 Corps that will have won a DCI Title since 1979, as opposed to 17 in Major League Baseball since 1979 where it is MUCH easier to rise up and win a World Series TITLE despite little resources or capital. It is certainly easier to win a title in baseball with little money and resources than it it is for a Corps to win a DCI Title with little money and resources compared to the Elite 3 Corps of BD, Cadets and Cavs.. And the data and fact support this.

Bottom line..... Major League Baseball is often criticised that it's an unfair system as teams at the top spend way, WAY more than other teams. Yet it is ironic that MLB teams have a FAR greater chance of winning a Title with little resources than DCI units. While there is somewhat of a correlation to money and resources = Titles in MLB, there is a DIRECT correlation to money and resources = Titles in DCI. This is why there is MUCH greater parity in competition for Titles in MLB than there is in DCI by comparison.

So if I am to understand you correctly: In DCI, money buys better music arrangers, show/drill designers, techs, and other show related talent. That also assumes that there are only a finite number of these people and those with the money get them. The rest are left to the lesser talented and therefore... less competitive.

All corps have buses, all corps have schools to billet during tour, all corps have uniforms and instruments, all corps share pre-planned venues, and (for the most part) all corps eat corps food (except BD...who dines! ). Yes, some corps attract upper-end member talent (and that does impact), but there are great performers up and down the rankings.

I guess I just have trouble seeing that money is at the center of success in DCI. It is (as I have said before) about consistency and keeping the team together. That may translate into paying people to stay...but it doesn't have to mean that.