Could the new pre-show rule lead to woodwinds?

[Jeff Ream]

Without getting too wrapped up in this: for a large part of competitive marching arts (for lack of a better term) history, marching band has emulated drum corps. I'm just guessing but I would say up until about 2000 perhaps? Anyway, at some point, drum corps became so mired in tradition (not necessarily a bad thing) that marching band became more innovative. From that point forward, drum corps, to some extent, has emulated marching band (and/or WGI) in show design (e.g. amplification and electronics) while marching band still strives to emulate drum corps in performance quality. While drum corps remains the gold standard of the marching activity in terms of excellence and execution, in areas such as show design and creativity DCI has been lagging behind in recent years. For better or for worse, drum corps is now looking to marching band for 'where to go next', because marching band has already gone there.

I'm also curious if the drum corps purists out there were given the option pick a year rules-wise and have those rules be carved in stone tablets and enshrined in DCI headquaters until the end of time, would you do that? Which year and why? Would you be comfortable with the activity never changing/evolving again? If not, how would you suggest the activity move forwards (not necessarily from today, but from a year of your choice)? Along those lines, which recent (2000+) rules changes do you feel have been beneficial to the activity? This should probably be another thread...(EDIT: New Thread)

Lastly, I'd be very curious to what the reaction would be if drum corps had ratified amplification and electronics prior to their use in marching band. I would think that there would still be traditionalists who would voice the same complaints they do today, but there would obviously be less talk of "drum corps turning into/is already marching band". If drum corps did it first, would there be as much of a complaint? What if these changes were looked at in a vacuum where marching band does not exist? What would everyone think then?

my issue is if band became more innovative, then maybe it was time for drum corps to get some new designers.

[Jerseyboy]

my issue is if band became more innovative, then maybe it was time for drum corps to get some new designers.

they are the same people.

[Jeff Ream]

Heh, good luck trying to get the so called "intelligencia" to wrap their heads around that little item. Quite honestly I have never seen an activity that has tried in vain to run away from itself and become non-unique.

that's where i think non drum corps people on the board...real business folks with experience in marketing...would be a huge help.

take a record executive....they know stuff like Jonas Brothers, etc will sell to a certain audience. As such, they don't try to sell Metallica to the same crowd.

i find it greatly amusing that 99% of the arts knows how to cater to its audience without making drastic changes to their product, but drum corps doesn't. They just keep trying to add more crap all the time that only dilutes the product

[Jeff Ream]

I'm picturing people connected with DCI thinking "There are more MBs.... more members.... more people in the stands... THEY must be doing it right so we must copy them to tap into those numbers".

show me a band circuit that gets 20,000 fans to it's championships. I'm talking paying customers, not kids in the stands because they didn't make finals and got freebies

[bawker]

they are the same people.

. . .then it's time for some new ones.

[Jeff Ream]

they are the same people.

not always. and in some cases, some of them that have brought "innovation" to DCI have been flops

[BRASSO]

Without getting too wrapped up in this: for a large part of competitive marching arts (for lack of a better term) history, marching band has emulated drum corps. I'm just guessing but I would say up until about 2000 perhaps? Anyway, at some point, drum corps became so mired in tradition (not necessarily a bad thing) that marching band became more innovative. From that point forward, drum corps, to some extent, has emulated marching band (and/or WGI) in show design (e.g. amplification and electronics) while marching band still strives to emulate drum corps in performance quality. While drum corps remains the gold standard of the marching activity in terms of excellence and execution, in areas such as show design and creativity DCI has been lagging behind in recent years. For better or for worse, drum corps is now looking to marching band for 'where to go next', because marching band has already gone there.

I'm also curious if the drum corps purists out there were given the option pick a year rules-wise and have those rules be carved in stone tablets and enshrined in DCI headquaters until the end of time, would you do that? Which year and why? Would you be comfortable with the activity never changing/evolving again? If not, how would you suggest the activity move forwards (not necessarily from today, but from a year of your choice)? Along those lines, which recent (2000+) rules changes do you feel have been beneficial to the activity? This should probably be another thread...(EDIT: New Thread)

Lastly, I'd be very curious to what the reaction would be if drum corps had ratified amplification and electronics prior to their use in marching band. I would think that there would still be traditionalists who would voice the same complaints they do today, but there would obviously be less talk of "drum corps turning into/is already marching band". If drum corps did it first, would there be as much of a complaint? What if these changes were looked at in a vacuum where marching band does not exist? What would everyone think then?

I understand this need to accept anything with a laisse faire attitude on whatever DCI decides to do or allow on the field. There' s apparently a wide spread acceptance of the " anything goes " position from what I'm gathering. And that's fine I suppose. I was just curious if this " anythng goes " position extends to literally ANYTHING in instrumentation. I mean, could DCI expect acceptance of( say) accordians as featured instruments ? Kazoos ? Sitars ? Harps ? What if DCI decided that woodwinds should become the featured instruments, and brass lines were cut down to 20 in total... as back up instrument acompaniments to the woodwinds ? Do the " anything goes" trusting and accepting fans have ANY line on instrumentation that would get their attention to ask.... " hey, wait up just a minute.... just where the heck are you going with this" ? or is this " anything goes " position on intrumentation DCI has adopted pretty much ok with everyone ? in other words, you're pretty content to just sit back and watch it all " evolve " before your very eyes ? ( or as some might posit... " disappear, right before your very eyes " ? )

Edited February 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[audiodb]

That, IMO, is the real question: how many people at DCI/DCA shows a) never marched corps, b) never volunteered or worked with a corps, c) don't have friends or family in a corps and d) are not of marching age hoping to march in the future (obviously not really a question for DCA).

Why "never marched corps"?

Part of my observation is that the marching band audience doesn't just lack uninitiated fans....it also lacks alumni to a very large degree. I realize you didn't completely miss that aspect, but the way you target activity outsiders above tends to gloss over the alumni demographic.

And as for BOA, I've been to a couple of Grand Nationals, and audiences there were as I described earlier, except that at finals, some of the estimated 7,000 non-finalist kids fill in some of the empty seats. I'm sure there must be a few actual fans of the activity, but their numbers are still disappointingly small compared to DCI....especially considering the explosive growth in numbers of competitive marching band alumni.

[JimF-LowBari]

show me a band circuit that gets 20,000 fans to it's championships. I'm talking paying customers, not kids in the stands because they didn't make finals and got freebies

Guess I'd better explain my earlier statement.

When I compared DC/MB audience numbers I mean the total number of ###es in the seats for ALL shows. Not just the championships, I mean even counting the bodies at the Westview Rain Festival (Funky Winkerbean reference) and the Podunk (Perry County ) Stump Jumper Review.

Figured more bands mean more shows means more total bodies in the stands (of course the averages would look like crap).

[Jeff Ream]

Guess I'd better explain my earlier statement.

When I compared DC/MB audience numbers I mean the total number of ###es in the seats for ALL shows. Not just the championships, I mean even counting the bodies at the Westview Rain Festival (Funky Winkerbean reference) and the Podunk (Perry County ) Stump Jumper Review.

Figured more bands mean more shows means more total bodies in the stands (of course the averages would look like crap).

well, i'd imagine bands have more, and here's why.

most bands compete at shows primarily close to home, making it easy for mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle, brother, sister, 14th cousin 19 times removed etc to attend. Take away a big show for a circuit like their finals, and most parents can see their kids every weekend. And even where I teach, with finals usually less than 2 hours from home, we don't see all the parents at finals we see at local shows.

Now factor in the multitude of high schools and circuits out there...yeah overall bands will draw more people. But, you don't often see a lot of people who show up just to watch and have no ties, and those that do usually try to find ways to scam their way in.

In DCI, a kid's closest show to home may be an airplane ride away. With luck, the parents may get to see the kid 1/2 times, extended family less. local shows will have more causal fans than regionals or finals, but the family connection will be harder to maintain.

if we have a kid that marches, i know if I want to see the kid perform a lot, i'll be a volunteer, because otherwise, I can't just pick up every weekend and fly to wherever they are unless the mortgage gods really smile upon the business