The Roof Will Be Open

[kickhaltsforlife]

Well, I don't believe that's even remotely true. I think the majority of drum corps fans don't care either way. I think DCI realizes that people that actively post on DCP are a very vocal MINORITY of fans, and are a group with a very wide degrees of opinions, all of which are valid to some degree or another.

Thinking for one second that DCP posters represent a majority of fans would be grossly inaccurate.

Honestly, we have no well of telling. But from what I have witnessed.. the often majority opinion on here matches from what I hear around a stadium... or when I talk to people... not just my friends who are fans.. but the random people I bump into and strike up a conversation. And I wouldn't say a wide degree of opinons. I would say very similar opinons with often slight variances.

[audiodb]

No, I'm not splitting anything...Amps did not legalize one new instrument. Period.

• microphone
  
• mixing board
  
• PA speaker
  

He's right....the amplification rule change did not legalize only one device.

[audiodb]

So I ask again, what should DCI be doing? All I’ve gotten from your responses is that they shouldn’t publish articles from which readers could draw questionable inferences.

Well, maybe they could at least have put out the articles they promised in early December. Like it says in "DCI Direct":

– A series of articles outlining discussions with each of the experts from their unique points of view will be published on DCI.org over the next several weeks, and there will undoubtedly be additional discussion within the forums of Drum Corps Planet as well. Included in the interview series are perspectives from:

• Composer/Arranger and DCI Hall of Fame member Jay Bocook

• Percussion Arranger and DCI Hall of Fame member Thom Hannum

• Brass Arranger, Former DCI Judge and Judge Administrator and DCI Hall of Fame member Jay Kennedy

• Percussion Arranger and DCI Hall of Fame member Ralph Hardimon

• Program Designer and DCI Hall of Fame member Marc Sylvester

• Michael Fox, Stadium Director at Lucas Oil Stadium

• World Drum Corps Hall of Fame Member and Grammy Award-winning audio engineer Frank Dorritie

• DCI Adjudicator Curtis Costanza

• DCI Adjudicator Allan Kristensen

• DCI Adjudicator David Starnes

• Emmy Award-winning television producer Tom Blair

Not even a majority of the promised experts have weighed in. It's been far more than "several weeks" now, and we've seen three articles covering five of the above 11 people.

[bobjacobs]

Well, maybe they could at least have put out the articles they promised in early December. Like it says in "DCI Direct":

Not even a majority of the promised experts have weighed in. It's been far more than "several weeks" now, and we've seen three articles covering five of the above 11 people.

We made the decision to kill the instructors' piece because – particularly after the judging article – we knew that it will be perceived as "too fluffy..." and we wanted to spare the instructors and designers who were nice enough to be interviewed the hassle of getting bombarded with negative comments from people who will inevitably accuse them of being shills for DCI, even though several of those instructors/designers commenting were outspoken with regard to their own concerns with sound issues. We didn't feel that it would break any substantial new ground on the topic nor would it achieve the desired effect of "openly examining the issue from various perspectives."

For the record, the judges' piece in that series was never intended to "sweep anything under the rug" and to deliver a "see, we told you it wasn't an issue" message. We didn't cherry pick guys who were saying nice things in an effort to save their jobs or anything dubious like that. We asked for input from guys who had an opinion, not knowing what those opinions would be. When we started the process of examining the sound inside the stadium, we simply wanted to get input from a number of constituencies, one of which was the adjudication community.

The bottom line: enough has been said on this subject... so rather than continue to upset people by offering additional perspectives, we've opted to focus our limited resources on improving the situation rather than pouring fuel on the fire in a never-ending debate.

Try new Shimmer. It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping.

Edited March 25, 2010 by bobjacobs

[BozzlyB]

Well, I don't believe that's even remotely true. I think the majority of drum corps fans don't care either way. I think DCI realizes that people that actively post on DCP are a very vocal MINORITY of fans, and are a group with a very wide degrees of opinions, all of which are valid to some degree or another.

Thinking for one second that DCP posters represent a majority of fans would be grossly inaccurate.

I agree 95% There are maybe 100 or less people who post frequently on DCP, and another few hundred who post occasionally. With that said, just about every point of view seems pretty well represented here, so I would make the argument that it is probable that DCP IS representative to a degree of the whole of DCI fans. There is no way to measure the degree of statistical accuracy in the represntation of opinion, so it's probably not representative in that sense, but I don't think there are opinions out there that exist that we aren't aware of.

Edited March 25, 2010 by BozzlyB

[jjeffeory]

I did read what you wrote. you said passing amps allowed no new instruments.

so Mike, when you play a synth, an electric bass, and a guitar...how does the audience hear them? Especially in a cavern like LOS? No amps passage, you don't see those instruments. Oh I know, you're trying to split hairs here to jusify your absurd position, but be realistic...no amps, no synths, guitars, and bass. I know you'll try to deny it, but you'll be incorrect.

Funny....in spots Kasas and Malaga came across the same...a lot of loud notes with people running that was hard to follow a consistent melodic line. so yeah, they did sound the same.

you're right Mike there's no disconnect happening. You can keep saying it. But if there wasn't DCI wouldn't be doing all they are doing in terms of getting in touch with the fan base.

ah yes, the usual "people who don't like it are complainers" defense.

yeah Mike, keep watching attendance go down. keep watching people spend less on DCI. I'm glad you arent running my business, I don't want to be unemployed again.

This

[audiodb]

We made the decision to kill the instructors' piece because – particularly after the judging article – we knew that it will be perceived as "too fluffy..." and we wanted to spare the instructors and designers who were nice enough to be interviewed the hassle of getting bombarded with negative comments from people who will inevitably accuse them of being shills for DCI, even though several of those instructors/designers commenting were outspoken with regard to their own concerns with sound issues.

(sigh)

We didn't feel that it would break any substantial new ground on the topic nor would it achieve the desired effect of "openly examining the issue from various perspectives."

Perhaps....although I would think Tom Blair's perspective would have covered fresh ground.

For the record, the judges' piece in that series was never intended to "sweep anything under the rug" and to deliver a "see, we told you it wasn't an issue" message. We didn't cherry pick guys who were saying nice things in an effort to save their jobs or anything dubious like that. We asked for input from guys who had an opinion, not knowing what those opinions would be. When we started the process of examining the sound inside the stadium, we simply wanted to get input from a number of constituencies, one of which was the adjudication community.

Well, at least we got that much. You know, when you really read what these guys were saying, you find several interesting points....for instance, for someone concerned with competitive fairness, it is worth considering that the environment for visual performance is more even indoors than in the varying weather and lighting of outdoor venues. Fans dissatisfied with the sound may not be any happier to learn that, but it was worth noting.

The bottom line: enough has been said on this subject... so rather than continue to upset people by offering additional perspectives, we've opted to focus our limited resources on improving the situation rather than pouring fuel on the fire in a never-ending debate.

OK. Speaking of which, any hope of getting a corps into LOS during all-days for sound testing?

[bobjacobs]

OK. Speaking of which, any hope of getting a corps into LOS during all-days for sound testing?

Working on it.

Issues to consider:

– Would have to be done when stadium is "dark"... thus, there would need to be a stadium "crew" of some sort brought in to do even the basics – open doors, turn on lights, security, safety, lavatories, etc. (Not sure of whether there's a union contract situation involved in this instance or not). Bringing in a crew = "some" costs. Looking into that.

– Corps scheduling and logistics – even though a corps might be rehearsing in the area, doesn't mean that they will have their own logistics team to move the corps to the stadium and back. Most corps (especially those who charter buses for tour) don't have their drivers sitting around during spring training, etc. Although I'm sure that any corps would love a few hours in the stadium, the few hours of transportation / feeding / loading and unloading on either side of that can quickly burn an entire day of spring training and create a pain in the butt for the corps, particularly if it is in the middle of the week.

– While I think we agree that a "before and after" experiment in the empty stadium would give us some good data, the "empty stadium" part of that makes it somewhat limited in term of "intelligence-gathering" capability. Not saying it wouldn't be worth trying it... but I guess the issue is what it would take to make something happen vs. what we would gain by doing so.

I'll be sure to pass along any additional info relating to this if and when there is something to share.

[Dave]

This would probably require more than a few months to set up, but just for the sake of discussion, could it be turned into some kind of season preview exhibition show? Maybe at least to offset the costs involved or even raise some cash for those involved. Not pretending to know all the details involved, just throwing it out there.

[Jeff Ream]

We made the decision to kill the instructors' piece because – particularly after the judging article – we knew that it will be perceived as "too fluffy..." and we wanted to spare the instructors and designers who were nice enough to be interviewed the hassle of getting bombarded with negative comments from people who will inevitably accuse them of being shills for DCI, even though several of those instructors/designers commenting were outspoken with regard to their own concerns with sound issues. We didn't feel that it would break any substantial new ground on the topic nor would it achieve the desired effect of "openly examining the issue from various perspectives."

For the record, the judges' piece in that series was never intended to "sweep anything under the rug" and to deliver a "see, we told you it wasn't an issue" message. We didn't cherry pick guys who were saying nice things in an effort to save their jobs or anything dubious like that. We asked for input from guys who had an opinion, not knowing what those opinions would be. When we started the process of examining the sound inside the stadium, we simply wanted to get input from a number of constituencies, one of which was the adjudication community.

The bottom line: enough has been said on this subject... so rather than continue to upset people by offering additional perspectives, we've opted to focus our limited resources on improving the situation rather than pouring fuel on the fire in a never-ending debate.

Try new Shimmer. It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping.

makes sense....tho...( dont shoot me)...you should have said that several weeks ago