June scoring....

[BozzlyB]

This topic is a third cousin to the "Who's show is done already" thread, but I though it deserved it's own discussion.

Here is my question. Should a corps visual score be negatively affected if they present only 1/2 or 3/4 of a visual book in their first few (or several compettitions).

IMO corps playing portions of their shows standing still in one set or in an arc due to not having it finished should receive a lower visual score than they would otherwise. Even extremely dirty drill/visual work should score higher than NO drill/visual work.

If the visual judges (especially GE vis) are taking into consideration the degree to which the drill/visual work supports the music or theme, then how can they not slam a corps for doing NOTHING visually. Are the judges just imagining what the completed show will look like and judging accordingly? Are they only judging the portion of the show that IS visually completed and ignoring the rest? If scores aren't affected by incomplete shows then why don't corps just do standstills and get perfect vis scores until their program is clean enough to present?

Edited May 6, 2010 by BozzlyB

[CitBos]

I've wondering the same thing myself...

[corps-mudgeon]

There is a secret codicil to the rule book which states that every corps is entitled to its previous year's placement until at least two weeks into the season. That takes care of a lot of unfinished show problems.

[RedandBlack]

BozzlyB,

Totally agree...so many aspects of presenting an unfinished show irk me, but the worst is what you reference. I think it's one thing to not have some visuals in, maybe have the flags stripped for a few counts here and there, but to just park and blow for the last segment of the show and get scored for it drives me nuts! If they're so good anyway, the drop in score while they "finish" their show should be overcome in the coming weeks, right? Why not knock them downa peg or two in the meantime?

[contrajedi8]

I agree. Corps that put 1/2 to 3/4 of a show on the field and park and bark for the last two minutes or so sould suffer the consequenses. Especially with the way move-ins works now. Most corps have gone to (within the last decade or so) moving in mid-May. That means those groups do about 4-5 weeks of everydays. You're telling me you can't get the show on the field with that kid of time??!!?? I call shenanigans.

[Bruckner8]

There's nothing in the sheets that says "Penalize for incomplete shows."

The sheets don't even know if a show is incomplete. In fact, the audience doesn't know. Well, we think we know, based on experience, when we see a corps that normally runs through the end, instead stand still for the final minute.

The sheets are only designed to reward what's there...not what ISN'T there. (build-up vs knock down)

Visually speaking, I don't know how a corps could be "penalized" unless the VIS General Effect of the show is left lacking. Theoretically, a corps could do 1 minute of drill, stand still for 10 minutes, and get a perfect score in VIS ensemble. I suppose if they stood still "with feeling" or made the standing still transcend subtlety, they could get high GE too! It depends on the BS-factor of the judge and the CI of the corps, as corps-mudgeon alluded to above. (Most judges aren't willing to call BS on something, especially if a corps has a history of doing things well.)

[skajerk]

Wow! I didn't realize we had so many experts here in DCPland who know exactly when shows should be completed. Makes me wonder why they aren't on staff somewhere. I'm sure there are corps out there that can use that expertise to their advantage. <\sarcasm>

Edited May 6, 2010 by skajerk

[Rochester New York]

If the visual judges (especially GE vis) are taking into consideration the degree to which the drill/visual work supports the music or theme, then how can they not slam a corps for doing NOTHING visually. Are the judges just imagining what the completed show will look like and judging accordingly? Are they only judging the portion of the show that IS visually completed and ignoring the rest? If scores aren't affected by incomplete shows then why don't corps just do standstills and get perfect vis scores until their program is clean enough to present?

The cynical answer is that judges, consciously or unconsciously, roughly score what they think corps SHOULD be doing in June. This makes the shows seem legitimate and worthy of attendance.

For example, if the top corps at a June show scored a 40, how could DCI justify charging attendance? Why pay full ticket prices to see a corps that are below mediocre according to judges' scores?

[BRASSO]

There's nothing in the sheets that says "Penalize for incomplete shows."

.

The sheets are only designed to reward what's there...not what ISN'T there. (build-up vs knock down)

Well, how do we explain corps that ( for one example ) due to sickness had as many as 12 marchers missing in performances last year ?. Their visuals in these shows as designed were not completed. There was nobody " there " to complete the designed visual in the show performance. We learned last year that judges made allowances for this, and presumed that somebody WAS in the visual formation and " would have completed the visual move as designed had there been no hole in the formation due to the missing marcher ". The fact that the visual move as designed was NOT completed was apparently waived, and credit for the completed visual move was granted. If so, then how does this square with this comment of yours that ( quote ) judging " sheets are only designed to reward what's there, not what ISN'T there " ?

Edited May 6, 2010 by BRASSO

[KAW]

I've often marveled that fans will pay decent coin to watch programs early in the season that aren't complete and not complain (I've done it - will do it again). I wonder what would happen if we paid $8 to see a movie and portions had no sound, or no acting with a big "we're still finishing this part" sign.

Same can be said about those that put in the "real ending" during the last half of the season. What about that guy who paid money to see the false ending?

I understand how/why these things happen, I just think its curious that no one comments on the idea that someone is actually paying to see these programs.