dbc03 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Personally, I think Drum Corps would be far better off w/ about 50 'Pioneer-type' corps, rather than the dozen and a half super corps we now have. The current model is not sustainable over the long run. No offense to Pioneer but I would not pay to see 50 Pioneer-type corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Pioneer seems to offer it's members certain things that a lot of other corps don't. If there is a down side to this, they are things that take time away from rehearsal. Maybe it's not as much as the impression I have, but rehearsal time is rehearsal time. If Pioneer wants to be more competitive, they have to make the competitive aspect of the activity more of a priority. I've always felt with Pioneer that the competition/placement part of drum corps was more of an afterthought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawstory Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 This Summer Pioneer is more competitive within the 18-23 than they have been in a while. Corps have their ups and downs. Pioneer was kind of flat for a few years but I can feel the momentum. They had the chance to make a big statement in the early 2000's so let's hope history does not repeat itself. Since 1972 Pioneer has beaten a couple of FINALIST corps. Here's just a sample; coltsvkbostonsuncoastglassmendutchboybridgemanargonnerebelstorontooptimistsguard smencrossmenbleuraederskiltiesnorthstarbluecoatsblueknightscascadesbluestarskings menoaklandcrusadersspiritofatlantatroopers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PioneerLeadSop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I often wonder what would have happened if we would have dropped to div 2 in 99 and won a few championships. Some of the members thought it would have built momentum and brought more kids to the corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvbailey12 Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 (edited) I often wonder what would have happened if we would have dropped to div 2 in 99 and won a few championships. Some of the members thought it would have built momentum and brought more kids to the corps. I have often wondered that myself! I know that Roman wanted to "run with the big dogs", if you will, plus pay would have been different. I still wonder that at times, if they were to just be competitive in DIV II, I mean Open Class, how would the organization be different? Anyways, I do appreciate the input from everyone. From what I hear, Donny Allen and the rest of the staff sound like they are doing things right and there is that wonderful buzz going on. So, no matter where they place this year, how does Pioneer keep this buzz/hopefully momentum going in the right way? I'm not trying to be a skeptic, just asking an honest question, but, if they wind up dead last again, do they lose that momentum in today's competitive, winning is the only thing mentality of our culture? Edited July 9, 2010 by mvbailey12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I often wonder what would have happened if we would have dropped to div 2 in 99 and won a few championships. Some of the members thought it would have built momentum and brought more kids to the corps. IMO Pioneer's lost opportunity was in the early/mid 90's when they were close to a full 128 membership, playing their ayusses off and killing everyone in DivII. No one was even close to competing with them in Div II back then (most divII corps were still maxing out at around 90 members) and THIS is when the could have made some serious noise in what was then Div I and been competitive enough to conceivably make a push upwards. Now they have a reputation as the last place corps. There is no denying it, and that in and of itself will be a huge obstacle to overcome from competitive standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No offense to Pioneer but I would not pay to see 50 Pioneer-type corps Why not? they are very entertaining - and IMHO more so than some of the super-corps clones out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDBaritone Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No offense to Pioneer but I would not pay to see 50 Pioneer-type corps You're probably the kind of fan that walked out on Jersey Surf right before their home-show performance. I'm sure the kids loved watching the fans pour out of the stadium right before they performed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Why not? they are very entertaining - and IMHO more so than some of the super-corps clones out there. Because the thing I enjoy most about drum corps is the high level of excellence and Pioneer doesn't achieve a level of excellence that would entice me to pay money to see it 50 times. I can enjoy a Pioneer show, but unless they move up the ranks and improve their level of excellence they aren't going to be the reason I buy tickets to a show. You're probably the kind of fan that walked out on Jersey Surf right before their home-show performance.I'm sure the kids loved watching the fans pour out of the stadium right before they performed. I wouldn't have done that if I had been there, but that just goes to show that I'm not alone in not paying to see 50 Pioneer-type corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staxrocks93 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Yeah, sounds obvious, but the point is that competing means understanding how the points are given, how to be in the game, how to perform at a higher level. Clearly the comment may rub you wrong or seem obvious, but also very clearly they are not scoring all that well, they are not beating a lot of corps, they always seem sloppy and unpolished, and the coordination of show is typically not great.This is why I said design and teaching is what wins or at least helps a corps move up in standing. The OP wanted to know why they don't score high...well they lack in design and teaching. End of story. Some people will say "well, Pioneer is better than a lot of corps and just not getting credit for it." That they are "being slotted." Sorry, don't buy it, never did. Judges can clearly see the level they are at, and their score is conducive of that level, which is typically low. This is not an insult, a slap in the face, or me just bashing, it's just the truth. So yeah, they don't beat other corps because they are not good enough to beat other corps. That will only change with better teaching and better design. Period! Lets not forget....Pioneer is a "TEACHING" corp. Many kids have never, ever played an instrument, marched or even speak english. Does it really matter about the score or the fact that Teal Sound comes out of the gate higher? No.....and whoever said it earlier is right.....there are MANY, MANY extremely talented members in Pioneer....that could march anywhere, but they choose not to for many, many reasons. Until you have been a part of what Pioneer is about, it is hard to make such comments. Remember, they just put in members from Mexico 3 days ago, who do not speak a word of English. Can you imagine teaching a drill to someone who dons't understand you! No, they are not as good as other corps and they know it. But, they work harder than any corps out there. Lets enjoy their show and hope Pioneer meets their goals this year, not those of us watching! No matter what is said, Pioneers show is awesome this year and I wish them all the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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