Phantoms guard

[rockinbrass]

I'm really tying not to feed the trolls lately, but when someone is as wrong as you have been every time you've clicked reply in this thread, I can't help but to cut in and let you know that you are wrong... again. Go ahead, test my credentials and see where I get my info, I assure you it's not hearsay or rumors like most info on here.

Thank you Robert. I noticed he only had like 5 posts, seemed trollish to me

SUTA

[general_tsos_chicken2]

I Was looking for a post like this... PR won in 2008 with a guard just as good as the one they have 2010..

PR overall has an amazing show and style..

oh the guard was wayyyyyyy better in 08!

but yes, the corps has a great show this year

[Room_101]

I'm worried about their visual performance all around, both from the guard and the rest of the corps.

I think Myron was a HUGE step up for them, but here are my thoughts:

Get rid of Rick Subel.

Get rid of the Emmerts.

You all have already discussed the guard situation, but after seeing a recent show, I'm more worried about how the rest of the corps looks visually compared to Blue Stars, BAC, etc. I'm shocked to see recaps with them decently high in visual performance, because in my opinion, they don't deserve it.

I'm also just plain sick and tired of watching their tuba players "jazz run" an 8 to 5. Yes. An 8 to 5. I saw it right in front of me. He was at the very end of the line, and he was the only one jazz running. At an 8 to 5.

They've been doing this "fake jazz run" since 2007, and I really hope somebody starts to get them on this soon.

[Phantombari1]

So you are saying they should replace their caption head? How is this being posted here any different then the member I speak with saying exactly the same thing on the phone to me? Not exactly "keeping it internal"

[/quote

I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't read everything. You seemed to have missed this part " To me, working together to fix the problem would be the right thing to do. You don't need to be a former color guard member to fix staging issues...Choreography is another issue and (IMO) requires expertise. Regiment has a histroy of great colorguard instruction, they should have no problem finding someone to help."

Seeing that you didn't notice that part isn't helping your troll image.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Phantombari1

[general_tsos_chicken2]

I'm worried about their visual performance all around, both from the guard and the rest of the corps.

I think Myron was a HUGE step up for them, but here are my thoughts:

Get rid of Rick Subel.

Get rid of the Emmerts.

You all have already discussed the guard situation, but after seeing a recent show, I'm more worried about how the rest of the corps looks visually compared to Blue Stars, BAC, etc. I'm shocked to see recaps with them decently high in visual performance, because in my opinion, they don't deserve it.

I'm also just plain sick and tired of watching their tuba players "jazz run" an 8 to 5. Yes. An 8 to 5. I saw it right in front of me. He was at the very end of the line, and he was the only one jazz running. At an 8 to 5.

They've been doing this "fake jazz run" since 2007, and I really hope somebody starts to get them on this soon.

1. get rid of rick subel - yes good plan

2. get rid of the emmerts - no , bad plan , they move very well, when the emmerts took over in 2005 their visual performance improved ten-fold. They have even won 'feet' at some major regionals and I think even quarters and semi's some years. Their low visual scores are not from the instruction of the vis team it's from the design, notice performance is very high, ensemble (which has to do with guard integration, and guard and the drill itself) is the low number. getting rid of them would be a mistake imo

3. myron was a huge step up yes, but good enough? i don't know... this is a tricky year to judge this because the concept restricts the drill to being condensed... I'm sure he will be around next year however and hopefully he will write stuff more like scv 97-01 and less like anything after that. his late 90's stuff is some of my favorite drill ever.

4. as for the 'fake' jazz running: i'm sure the visual judges are smart enough to know they aren't trying to 'trick' anybody. the toe down technique is just more fluid and sometimes easier for the members to play at certain tempo's. and it also looks better to just have all marchers in a certain area go toe down instead of just some. ... as for the lone tuba jazz runner you saw... i don't know about that that surprises me... unless it was a scatter type move where toe down is just an effect. in short, the whole 'they fake jazz run at small step sizes' argument is pretty lame imo, just because 'jazz running' has traditionally been done at large step sizes doesn't mean it has to be exclusive to that, especially when it can be more fluid and easier to use the technique. I MAY be able to see what you're saying if they still did the 'pleea' style jazz running because that would make it look awkward, but it doesn't look like they pleea anymore so i don't see the big deal

Edited July 15, 2010 by general_tsos_chicken2

[Room_101]

3. myron was a huge step up yes, but good enough? i don't know... this is a tricky year to judge this because the concept restricts the drill to being condensed... I'm sure he will be around next year however and hopefully he will write stuff more like scv 97-01 and less like anything after that. his late 90's stuff is some of my favorite drill ever.

4. as for the 'fake' jazz running: i'm sure the visual judges are smart enough to know they aren't trying to 'trick' anybody. the toe down technique is just more fluid and sometimes easier for the members to play at certain tempo's. and it also looks better to just have all marchers in a certain area go toe down instead of just some. ... as for the lone tuba jazz runner you saw... i don't know about that that surprises me... unless it was a scatter type move where toe down is just an effect. in short, the whole 'they fake jazz run at small step sizes' argument is pretty lame imo, just because 'jazz running' has traditionally been done at large step sizes doesn't mean it has to be exclusive to that, especially when it can be more fluid and easier to use the technique. I MAY be able to see what you're saying if they still did the 'pleea' style jazz running because that would make it look awkward.

Regarding #4, I can see some of your point. I just fee like since 2007 they've been trying to create this image of "look at us, we're jazz running AND playing balls loud." Well, yeah...sorry...but not. You ARE jazz running...but you're not.

As for the tuba player on the end, I saw it all throughout the show, some random marcher jazz running. Rarely did I see someone jazz run something bigger than a 6 to 5. (I've become quite good at counting Regiment's steps from yardline to yardline )

I guess my overlying point is perhaps that I think this jazz running thing is a poor visual decision, which ultimately looks poorly upon the Emmerts, who likely made the decision to do this jazz run in the first place.

One last thought--if Myron IS going to work out with his condensed forms, GO BACK TO DARK UNIFORMS. PLEASE. The white just bleeds against the green of the field and makes it all look a mess. Either stretch out the drill, or get dark uniforms.

[Lincoln]

3. myron was a huge step up yes, but good enough? i don't know... this is a tricky year to judge this because the concept restricts the drill to being condensed... I'm sure he will be around next year however and hopefully he will write stuff more like scv 97-01 and less like anything after that. his late 90's stuff is some of my favorite drill ever.

The corps drill style has completely changed. I'm sure it was a huge adjustment for veterans compared to drill demands from prior years.

I'd like to see Myron stay with them. I'd like to see the same staff working together year after year and continue to build the corps.

[steeldrum]

Regarding #4, I can see some of your point. I just fee like since 2007 they've been trying to create this image of "look at us, we're jazz running AND playing balls loud." Well, yeah...sorry...but not. You ARE jazz running...but you're not.

As for the tuba player on the end, I saw it all throughout the show, some random marcher jazz running. Rarely did I see someone jazz run something bigger than a 6 to 5. (I've become quite good at counting Regiment's steps from yardline to yardline )

I guess my overlying point is perhaps that I think this jazz running thing is a poor visual decision, which ultimately looks poorly upon the Emmerts, who likely made the decision to do this jazz run in the first place.

One last thought--if Myron IS going to work out with his condensed forms, GO BACK TO DARK UNIFORMS. PLEASE. The white just bleeds against the green of the field and makes it all look a mess. Either stretch out the drill, or get dark uniforms.

Can somebody explain "Jazz running" and why it would be a bad thing if they are doing it? I've seen this referenced in other posts about Phantom as if its bad. Thanks.

[general_tsos_chicken2]

Regarding #4, I can see some of your point. I just fee like since 2007 they've been trying to create this image of "look at us, we're jazz running AND playing balls loud." Well, yeah...sorry...but not. You ARE jazz running...but you're not.

As for the tuba player on the end, I saw it all throughout the show, some random marcher jazz running. Rarely did I see someone jazz run something bigger than a 6 to 5. (I've become quite good at counting Regiment's steps from yardline to yardline )

I guess my overlying point is perhaps that I think this jazz running thing is a poor visual decision, which ultimately looks poorly upon the Emmerts, who likely made the decision to do this jazz run in the first place.

One last thought--if Myron IS going to work out with his condensed forms, GO BACK TO DARK UNIFORMS. PLEASE. The white just bleeds against the green of the field and makes it all look a mess. Either stretch out the drill, or get dark uniforms.

yeah i don't think thaty are trying to say that at all (look at us we're jazz running and playing loud). end of 2007 would have looked really bad if most of the corps was doing around a 4-5 jazz running, while some were just marching normally. It did look a little weird because they still did the pleea jazz run then , i wish they hadn't, but i think it would have been more awkward with some marching... and the end of 08 even though it may not have been a 4-5 (i'm not sure what it was exactly looked 5-5 ish... maybe it was 4 i don't know) I think they would have been very uncomfortable 'regular' marching that drill at that tempo. I actually like their use of toe down so i guess to each his own :)

as for myron, his drill is not always condensed. It is more so this year due to concept, they can't exactly move from one corner to the opposite corner throughout the show and spread across the field at the same time. Yes the white uniforms don't help that cause. And i think the all black uniform would look pretty BA when you see the members close up, but you wouldn't be able to see anything from the stands... all black is bad :( ... unless they added white wings or shoulders or something but god i would hate to see PR in a mixed color uniform..... white is bold, and brave, i'm okay with that.

[kdaddy]

4. as for the 'fake' jazz running: i'm sure the visual judges are smart enough to know they aren't trying to 'trick' anybody. the toe down technique is just more fluid and sometimes easier for the members to play at certain tempo's. and it also looks better to just have all marchers in a certain area go toe down instead of just some. ... as for the lone tuba jazz runner you saw... i don't know about that that surprises me... unless it was a scatter type move where toe down is just an effect. in short, the whole 'they fake jazz run at small step sizes' argument is pretty lame imo, just because 'jazz running' has traditionally been done at large step sizes doesn't mean it has to be exclusive to that, especially when it can be more fluid and easier to use the technique. I MAY be able to see what you're saying if they still did the 'pleea' style jazz running because that would make it look awkward, but it doesn't look like they pleea anymore so i don't see the big deal

I'm with you on this. Those who know what's going on aren't fooled into seeing difficulty. However, PR's use of jazz running is effective visually, even if it's not difficult. You can have difficulty with no effect (e.g., PR 2002, those guys were flying but looked like they were standing still), and you can have little difficulty with big effect (e.g., PR 2007, that jazz run, while not fooling anybody on difficulty, was very effective).