The truth.

[NYSkyliner]

And Mike should know. He was in the horn line back then.

Ssshhh!!!! They don't need to know that. Actually I was with the group from up in Norway. You may have seen some of our commercials on TV. You know, the ones about the credit cards???

[drillking]

Depends, Keith. To get into NJA on Music, they'd like a Music Degree or for you to be working on one. Visual judges, no.

Apply/express an interest, attend the clinic, pass the trial and mentoring process, which can take less than a season if you're good, and you're on board. Different judging associations have different criteria, or none at all, or very little, actually. NJA's process is pretty tough compared to most out there.

DCA looks for good people with experience and good reps from different associations to fill their ranks when they need them etc. I know they look for people with a solid corps experience and background as a performer or instructor, I can think of only one DCA judge I know of that didn't have that, but their educational resume, their honesty, and talent's held them in high respect and good stead.

Umm - not to be disrespectful but up to 2003 NJA has had a number of non music majors and non "working toward " a music degreed person judging many, many, many shows. In fact we "experienced" a string of 4 shows in a row in 2001 with a plumber, UPS driver, Mailman and a nightwatchmen judging music captions. All of them marched but were never music majors......

Just sayin - so if something changed in the last several years, I apologize -

[Bando_Commando]

Bando...

These men and women have FORGOTTEN more drills and music for all the years that they marched in drum corps than you will EVER remember.

Get off your high horse. If you have that much of a problem with DCI/DCA/WGI judging and the caliber of product that the corps put out (especially with DCA being a weekend sport) then don't go to shows or stay with your marching band.

Remember that DCA has been around since the 1960's and DCI (1970's). but Drum & Bugle Corps, if you didn't know, started as a para-military organization for all of our veterans who returned from World War II. Don't talk about drum corps who "cover" other shows...really.

Okay, I'm done.

Oh yeah, since you like spouting off, why didn't you sign your name? Probably because you're from one of the corps that got blasted by the judges (if you even march in DCA).

I have no problem with the DCI, DCA, or WGI judges and the judging system. If you possessed the comprehension skills of an "8th grader" you would have been able to deduct that after reading.

Secondly, I have no problem with the quality of the product. I myself even acknowledged that it is a weekend activity which requires more mental stamina and brings about more a greater level of difficulty. My issue is that people always hold the victor in DCA (be it at a show or at finals A class or Open class) to a standard that is not achievable. They complain about a few ticks in a performance as if the people in second and even third were flawless. In reality, and relatively speaking, DCA Corps never reach that level... none of them. In short I find it ridiculous when someone whines about several corps not being clean mid season. What do they expect... they not even going to reach that level of cleanliness at finals.

On the topic of a Corps "covering" a show... all I am doing here is pointing a finger at other corps that are "guilty" of things that the DCP Elitist community likes to bash the Reading Buccaneers for. If anything my post is mocking those individuals.

Many shows can have the same title and concept but still be different. Clearly Crown's take on The Wizard of Oz is far different from The Empire Statesmen. That in and of itself is the reason why I went into such detail explaining that yes, in fact, it is the same show concept.

Thank you for the history lesson, but I am well aware of the activity's origins. I personally embrace the rich history that still lives on in the alumni corps. It's a shame that more DCI corps don't have them. I was sad to see the Yankee-Rebels go.

I grew up watching this activity and thankfully I was able to put 6 years in the Jr. Corps World. I still respect each corps in DCA, hence why I stuck up for the Empire Statesmen and the Reading Buccaneers.

Jeff-

I don't doubt that you have been in a great DCA percussion ensemble, look at what some of the WGI lines can do with weekends and a few extended weekends. It is just rare to have that happen in DCA because most of the individuals marching WGI in world class march Jr. Corps and drum all summer. I'm sure that you understand what I'm getting at with that.

As for the TOB and TIA judges, I myself never had to deal with that circuit as I had previously stated. I was just commenting on several stories that I have heard from individuals that I marched with in Jr. Corps that came from different programs. The general consensus among these individuals at the 2 corps that I have marched in was that TOB and TIA's judging community has gone down hill each year and is now a joke. Again, not from my personal experience... that is just something that I have heard through the grape vine.

[Jeff Ream]

N

Umm - not to be disrespectful but up to 2003 NJA has had a number of non music majors and non "working toward " a music degreed person judging many, many, many shows. In fact we "experienced" a string of 4 shows in a row in 2001 with a plumber, UPS driver, Mailman and a nightwatchmen judging music captions. All of them marched but were never music majors......

Just sayin - so if something changed in the last several years, I apologize -

NJA has been making some changes yes, many for the better. Tho I don't ever recall a degree being a prerequisite, but knoweldge is mandatory.

[Ron H]

Why is everyone in such a tizzy? I don't know who "Bando" is but I'm puzzled by some of the reactions here. I'm wondering if people actually read what the OP first posted.

Point by point, I'll respond only to that first post...

Your Point of Order #1: You seem to be simply calling out the Monday Morning Quarterbacks who think they know better than the judges. Point taken. I think others here have said the same thing.

You go on to say Reading did not have a "perfect" percussion show and was awarded the "perfect" score simply because of the need to open the gap with MBI. And you are defending that decision. Again, I think many others here have made the same argument. I don't have a problem with that.

Your Point of Order #2: All you seem to be saying is that people are rather foolish to claim the Bucs are "ruining DCA." I agree. And I'm pretty sure nearly everyone else here agrees with that.

Your Point of Order #3: Again, all you seem to be saying is that those who criticize Empire as cheesy should lighten up because each drum corps is unique. And again, I don't think anyone here should have a problem with that.

Your Point of Order #4: You are criticizing people who look down on DCA corps as simply "copying" other corps' shows. You do go on to point out the similarities with some other DCI shows. Well, point taken. There are similarities. I doubt any corps sets out to do that. Some music just lends itself to the drum corps treatment and I don't have a problem with that.

In summary, I guess I agree with you on those points.

So again, why are people so upset?

[Jeff Ream]

I have no problem with the DCI, DCA, or WGI judges and the judging system. If you possessed the comprehension skills of an "8th grader" you would have been able to deduct that after reading.

Secondly, I have no problem with the quality of the product. I myself even acknowledged that it is a weekend activity which requires more mental stamina and brings about more a greater level of difficulty. My issue is that people always hold the victor in DCA (be it at a show or at finals A class or Open class) to a standard that is not achievable. They complain about a few ticks in a performance as if the people in second and even third were flawless. In reality, and relatively speaking, DCA Corps never reach that level... none of them. In short I find it ridiculous when someone whines about several corps not being clean mid season. What do they expect... they not even going to reach that level of cleanliness at finals.

On the topic of a Corps "covering" a show... all I am doing here is pointing a finger at other corps that are "guilty" of things that the DCP Elitist community likes to bash the Reading Buccaneers for. If anything my post is mocking those individuals.

Many shows can have the same title and concept but still be different. Clearly Crown's take on The Wizard of Oz is far different from The Empire Statesmen. That in and of itself is the reason why I went into such detail explaining that yes, in fact, it is the same show concept.

Thank you for the history lesson, but I am well aware of the activity's origins. I personally embrace the rich history that still lives on in the alumni corps. It's a shame that more DCI corps don't have them. I was sad to see the Yankee-Rebels go.

I grew up watching this activity and thankfully I was able to put 6 years in the Jr. Corps World. I still respect each corps in DCA, hence why I stuck up for the Empire Statesmen and the Reading Buccaneers.

Jeff-

I don't doubt that you have been in a great DCA percussion ensemble, look at what some of the WGI lines can do with weekends and a few extended weekends. It is just rare to have that happen in DCA because most of the individuals marching WGI in world class march Jr. Corps and drum all summer. I'm sure that you understand what I'm getting at with that.

As for the TOB and TIA judges, I myself never had to deal with that circuit as I had previously stated. I was just commenting on several stories that I have heard from individuals that I marched with in Jr. Corps that came from different programs. The general consensus among these individuals at the 2 corps that I have marched in was that TOB and TIA's judging community has gone down hill each year and is now a joke. Again, not from my personal experience... that is just something that I have heard through the grape vine.

I understand what you're getting at....but, I think you don't know DCA as well as you think you do to make the claims that you do. Same for NJA.

hey I've heard that USSBA panels are filled out with Cadets kids paying off dues.....does that make it gospel because I've heard it somewhere?no, far from it.

My point is...be careful with the wide strokes you're painting with...you may end up getting a lot of it on you, and not the wall...for DCA and NJA.

yes people will have shows they love and shows they hate...I do, tho mine don't always match up with the DCP elite as you call them ( and this is hysterical, because on the junior forums, fans who love Bucs and think Empire is pure cheese would be thought of entirely the opposite of how you characterize them.)

[KeithHall]

So I guess a BA in Music, MA in Education and half way through doctorate in education...I might make it!

Depends, Keith. To get into NJA on Music, they'd like a Music Degree or for you to be working on one. Visual judges, no.

Apply/express an interest, attend the clinic, pass the trial and mentoring process, which can take less than a season if you're good, and you're on board. Different judging associations have different criteria, or none at all, or very little, actually. NJA's process is pretty tough compared to most out there.

DCA looks for good people with experience and good reps from different associations to fill their ranks when they need them etc. I know they look for people with a solid corps experience and background as a performer or instructor, I can think of only one DCA judge I know of that didn't have that, but their educational resume, their honesty, and talent's held them in high respect and good stead.

[drillking]

N

NJA has been making some changes yes, many for the better. Tho I don't ever recall a degree being a prerequisite, but knoweldge is mandatory.

Jeff - I was just respoding to that particular point - I agree 100% with the knowledge requirement. NJA did/does not have a music ed background. I am glad to hear they are making the needed changes.

Ed

[Scoutnout]

So I guess a BA in Music, MA in Education and half way through doctorate in education...I might make it!

NO!!!!!....lol

[Jeff Ream]

Jeff - I was just respoding to that particular point - I agree 100% with the knowledge requirement. NJA did/does not have a music ed background. I am glad to hear they are making the needed changes.

Ed

it's fun to help with theprocess, at least for the one sheet I am closely identified with. some of our best percussion people teach and judge in DCA and work with programs that dabble in WGI