Can your World Class Show win Open Class

[Tom Brace]

So DCI is about financial responsibility. Corps owe nothing more to the fans other than...well, these kids are certainly trying hard.

I guess I don't quite see it that way. A drum corps can save tons of cash and just stay at home...practice...perform in local concerts/contests and parades.

World Class MEANS SOMETHING. And the average fan could care less about how many dollars a corps has in the bank. They care about what they just witnessed for the last 11 minutes or so.

I know this is going to make me sound like I'm a fan of the G7 cabal, but that's not the case. However, this point is undeniable. There are corps...being billed as World Class and they are far from that when looking at their on the field performance. And then on the same note...some people are scolding fans on DCP for not going to watch certain corps' perform.

There are corps who make claims about their progress, about their desire to be better...in one case "everyday." That's a great motto...catch phrase. However, sizzle doesn't make the steak. If I were marketing this activity as "World Class" I would make certain that every corps performing could be looked at as a step up from the local high school marching band. With finals...the hallmark of the DCI season happening in Indianapolis (same exact stadium as the major national marching band competition) I would want to claim this is step above what a young person can do in their scholastic program. Afterall, this is the member pool.

In some instances and for a few of the corps I've seen over the past two days, I'd have a difficult time making that case.

[thirdcoast]

Even better thought .... there's no way to quantify this without going head to head.

Make it top 25 again, let the top 10 in OC compete in Quarters and we'll see who belongs where.

Other than that, this thread is pointless = trolling and slamming the bottom end of WC.

No thread is pointless, get off your soapbox. Great idea though with the top 10 open class in quarters, that is a frikin great idea. We as a group should really push for that.

[jwscv87]

Harsh as that sounds, that's my definition now of what it takes to minimally be considered for WC.

And I can tell you if I based decisions based on this criteria....

there would be at least two more Open Class corps.

Only two more OC corps? I'd say there would only be a few WC corps if we applied your criteria.

[CrunchyTenor]

OK, say the two WC corps you're thinking about did drop to OC, Tom. Who's next? Somebody is going to take last place. Does the last WC corps always move to OC until there's only one left? Then, does the last place OC corps have to create their own division so they can move down?

If a corps meets the criteria for WC as defined by the rules, then let them compete at that level.

Garry in Vegas

[decompressed]

This is, without a doubt, the dumbest topic i have ever read. Perhaps the Baltimore Orioles should move to the minor leagues then following your logic?

[Ed from Kansas]

So DCI is about financial responsibility. Corps owe nothing more to the fans other than...well, these kids are certainly trying hard.

I guess I don't quite see it that way. A drum corps can save tons of cash and just stay at home...practice...perform in local concerts/contests and parades.

World Class MEANS SOMETHING. And the average fan could care less about how many dollars a corps has in the bank. They care about what they just witnessed for the last 11 minutes or so.

I know this is going to make me sound like I'm a fan of the G7 cabal, but that's not the case. However, this point is undeniable. There are corps...being billed as World Class and they are far from that when looking at their on the field performance. And then on the same note...some people are scolding fans on DCP for not going to watch certain corps' perform.

There are corps who make claims about their progress, about their desire to be better...in one case "everyday." That's a great motto...catch phrase. However, sizzle doesn't make the steak. If I were marketing this activity as "World Class" I would make certain that every corps performing could be looked at as a step up from the local high school marching band. With finals...the hallmark of the DCI season happening in Indianapolis (same exact stadium as the major national marching band competition) I would want to claim this is step above what a young person can do in their scholastic program. Afterall, this is the member pool.

In some instances and for a few of the corps I've seen over the past two days, I'd have a difficult time making that case.

The reason for a drum corps existence is not solely for the enjoyment of the fans. It is to help young, aspiring musicians to have a competitive experience available no where else. Each corps has a different mission and philosophy and, in many cases, will affect where they place in the standings. Success is not always the number on the scoreboard. When you look at how many young people and other World Class corps have benefitted from a corps like Pioneer, you would be astounded.

The Blue Devils mission is to score a perfect 100. They work very hard to achieve that and have scored over 99. Would you say they are successful? Of course you would -- they are the big-time winners.

The mission of a drum corps like Pioneer is to take virtually any young person that wants to better himself in music and marching skills and teach them how. They are one of the youngest corps, average age wise, in World Class. Almost every year many of the kids leave Pioneer to march with the upper echelon corps. They make those corps because of the skills learned while marching with Pioneer. Would you say that Pioneer is successful in their mission? I would say yes, very successful. The environment in this drum corps is to help each other and respect each other. Their standard of conduct is very, very high.

So, Mr. Brace, I submit to you that your perception of what drum and bugle corps is all about is skewed. It's supposed to be about the kids, not the fans. That is the main difference between your opinion and the majority of the drum corps community.

And -- Better every day is more than a catch phrase. It's how those kids live and work.

[wishbonecav]

this thread sucks. But i join the fray anyway...

Does it take a genius to figure out that the 18-22 spots are all former D2's that joined the bus parade? Does it take a genius to figure out that Pacific Crest and Academy also joined the bus parade? (add em up and that's 1/3 of the traveling circuit).

And it shouldnt take a genius to figure out that the slots at this level FOR YEARS have been filled by the advancing D2 corps (Railmen, Northern Aurora, Spartans, ECJ, Black Gold, Limited Edition, Canadian Knights, Ventures, Patriots) or former D2 corps (Tarheel Sun, Les Etoile, LInsolite, Academie Musicale, Pioneer, Mandarins, Southwind) who most often nipped a bus parade corps (ie Troopers) for placement.

SO...nothing really new under the sun EXCEPT:

(1)that there really isnt a D2 any longer....everybody that could moved up and made it (Blue Stars, Carolina, the 17-22's) or tried to move up and folded (just about that whole list above you plus Capital Regiment, Nite Express, Kiwanis Kavaliers).

Open Class 2010 is really the 2 california powers and a host of D3 size units. Everybody else is GONE :(

(2) The OLD D2 is the NEW 17-22 And there is a CHASM between the Worlds and the Opens.

If Pio or Jersey shouldnt be competing in WC, where do you suggest they compete? With who? They can look around for other competitors and they are JUST NOT THERE ANYMORE. Locally or nationally. Where are the local corps with 40 horns that used to do 2nd tour? There used to be PLENTY and this was the D2 sweet spot. Where is the USOpen, World Open, Canadian Open, American International or Coast Guard Open?

(3) the 17-22 bloc has, with the benefit of the bus parade , GOTTEN BETTER.

A 68.0 to 70.0 used to be enough to squeak into this group and it could be done with 30 horns (Ventures, Musicale). Today, this bloc has 54 horns as a minimum requirement and programming far up the chart from the "old days". Pio and Jersey are way better today than yesterday.

(4) DCA has gotten measurably younger/bigger/better as there are fewer , or NO, local D2 and D3 opportunities (especially in the Northeast) and a migration from DCI to DCA occured. Bucs, Cabs, Hurcs, Empire, MBI are all HUGE corps and also represent the only game in town as an alternative to "getting on the bus".

So maybe the OLD D2 is the new 17-22 and a better DCA. I'll buy that.

Comments welcome...

whoosh!

Edited July 24, 2010 by wishbonecav

[wishbonecav]

This is, without a doubt, the dumbest topic i have ever read. Perhaps the Baltimore Orioles should move to the minor leagues then following your logic?

Baltimore has a major league team?

[Musicman1084]

So DCI is about financial responsibility. Corps owe nothing more to the fans other than...well, these kids are certainly trying hard.

I guess I don't quite see it that way. A drum corps can save tons of cash and just stay at home...practice...perform in local concerts/contests and parades.

World Class MEANS SOMETHING. And the average fan could care less about how many dollars a corps has in the bank. They care about what they just witnessed for the last 11 minutes or so.

I know this is going to make me sound like I'm a fan of the G7 cabal, but that's not the case. However, this point is undeniable. There are corps...being billed as World Class and they are far from that when looking at their on the field performance. And then on the same note...some people are scolding fans on DCP for not going to watch certain corps' perform.

There are corps who make claims about their progress, about their desire to be better...in one case "everyday." That's a great motto...catch phrase. However, sizzle doesn't make the steak. If I were marketing this activity as "World Class" I would make certain that every corps performing could be looked at as a step up from the local high school marching band. With finals...the hallmark of the DCI season happening in Indianapolis (same exact stadium as the major national marching band competition) I would want to claim this is step above what a young person can do in their scholastic program. Afterall, this is the member pool.

In some instances and for a few of the corps I've seen over the past two days, I'd have a difficult time making that case.

I agree with this to an extent..

Though I can't help but think, if Open Class corps were to actually have a better touring model and get PAID for shows, would some of those World Class corps still be as hesitant to go to Open Class? I think a huge factor is the stigma surrounding the activity in regards to odds of survival between Open Class and World Class.

[HPUEuph]

I'm surprised the Royals or Pirates weren't used