Props and the scoring advantage...

[SopMaster]

PhantomBari, have you even watched some of the lower corps? Lots of them do have props. Have you seen Spirit's show this year?

Props alone have nothing to do with BD's success. Their success comes from how they utilize the props and the total package of the production.

Edited July 24, 2010 by SopMaster

[TastyWaves]

I dont want to start to big of a philosophical rant, but the props arent what adds or subtracts from the score.

As a matter of fact, adding anything "Extra" makes you twice as accountable. You have added layers of execution responsibility,

AND you have to make sure they are properly integrated and relevant to the program.

I have seen shows in the various "Marching Arts" where it was obvious that props (or sound effects or narration) were brought in

to help save a concept that was not coming through on its own, and frankly, I HATE the use of that stuff.

In this particular case, its clear that these were part of the program from the first day their design staff met to talk about the show.

I cant overstate the execution part either.

I have done this myself with my programs over the years and very cool idea can sometimes die when a kid stages something the wrong way.

I once had a student set up a huge prop on the wrong yardline and the staff member responsible missed it altogether.

This caused collisions and some "What do i do?" moments out there.

I consider props the same as a trumpet or a snare drum or a sabre. Do it well, great! do it poorly, and you should get dropped.

[oldschooldbc]

PhantomBari, have you even watched some of the lower corps? Lots of them do have props. Have you seen Spirit's show this year?

Agreed. Props can be used for advantage or disadvantage. Same as with electronics. In Spirit's case, the props added basically nothing to the show, and function as nothing but a district. An annoying distraction, at that.

I found their entire show to be disappointing, just as with last year. Really, what is happening to that corps is sad. Really sad. I think back to their 1980 show, where they came out with that huge horn line, and blasted away to "Georgia." That fantastic 1980 show was one of the performances that made me fall in love with drum corps. That is what what I expect to see in a Spirit show - not weird screens being pushed across a field, while some electronic voice shouts "ICON! ICON!"

I really wish that corps would go back to its roots, and play the Southern-themed shows that brought it so much in the past. They essentially need to do what Madison is doing this year - returning to what made them great in the first place. Madison will likely make finals this year, and Spirit may not make semis. That makes perfect sense.

p.s., I am not criticizing the members of the corps. I am sure they are fine, hard-working young men and women, who are busting their humps on the practice field for 12 hours a day. I am, however, highly critical of that corps design staff and management. It is such a tragic waste.

[Phantombari1]

All the BD homers need to look past this discussion as a BD dump. It's not, it's about the activity moving forward in a fair way for all the corps. Not all the corps can afford the elaborate sets you see with the bigger more financially stable corps. To say they don't benefit from it would be intellectually dishonest. Props are essential to the progression of drumcorp. If the top corps this year all had props in their shows the spread would not be as large as it is today especially if it is used as effectively as BD.

Remove the props and BD's show would not be nearly as effective.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Phantombari1

[DeanInChicago]

Props to a well-used prop.

Though the 2009 Boston Crusaders apple has been sold at a silent auction covered in autographs, it was an ideal single prop used effectively in the program.

Cavaliers soared onto ladders in 2005, in their tribute to Chicago.

A black fabric mask covered the entire Santa Clara Vanguard at the conclusion of their late 1980's Phantom of the Opera championship at Arrowhead.

Blue Stars' 2010 tribute to Houdini briefly includes an imaginative use of ice cream parlor chairs.

When a prop can enhance a show, or further the story line, it is welcomed. More so, when an element of the show becomes a prop, then kudos to the design team.

A few years ago, the Troopers panned for gold - but with their contras. That was neat-o.

[Lance]

All the BD homers need to look past this discussion as a BD dump. It's not, it's about the activity moving forward in a fair way for all the corps. Not all the corps can afford the elaborate sets you see with the bigger more financially stable corps. To say they don't benefit from it would be intellectually dishonest. Props are essential to the progression of drumcorp. If the top corps this year all had props in their shows the spread would not be as large as it is today especially if it is used as effectively as BD.

Remove the props and BD's show would not be nearly as effective.

interesting way of not dumping on BD.

personally, i think that if the Cadets had Chucky doll props to go with their theme, they would've scored at least a 99.15 by now.

Also, Phantom would easily have outscored BD by their 3rd competition if they had a giant searchlight on the field to go wit their theme.

[Plan9]

All the BD homers need to look past this discussion as a BD dump. It's not, it's about the activity moving forward in a fair way for all the corps. Not all the corps can afford the elaborate sets you see with the bigger more financially stable corps. To say they don't benefit from it would be intellectually dishonest. Props are essential to the progression of drumcorp. If the top corps this year all had props in their shows the spread would not be as large as it is today especially if it is used as effectively as BD.

Remove the props and BD's show would not be nearly as effective.

It's about design. I know it's difficult to get this, but it's about design. Your assumption is yet another empty attempt to diminish and rationalize the design and quality of BD 2010. Just like if Phantom didn't have their props what would have happened to the drama they needed to portrait? Props are design features that designer put in place to form the production. Of all the directed rationales to BD's dominance, this is the most shallow. You all would do better looking at the entire package then trying to scatch your head and find a magic bullet. The magic bullet is BD's design team and performers....period!

You all are acting like the apes staring at the monolith in 2001!

Edited July 24, 2010 by Plan9

[BRASSO]

When comparing the top corps it seems the main difference in scoring comes from the visual and GE catacgories which in turn drive other scaptions scores. When watching BD continue to increase the size of the gap the only thing that I can see seperates them are the use of Props. Last year chairs, this year Mirrors. I am not a BD hater as I think BD's show this year is the best designed production however it is not executed any better than the other top corps when judged in each visiual caption or in any of the other catagories. Again this is just my opion but they are not technically better in any one catagory except as a total production.

I honestly believe that using props to enhance the production and executing to the same level as other corps, automatically creates the gap in scoring and subsequently enforces the idea of slotting. If other corps cannot afford the cost of using props to enhance the performance it won't matter how well they execute, the gap between the haves and have nots will increase. The only other corp I see consitantly doing the same thing are the Cavaliers.

Mind you I think the productions are good for Drum Corp but I think it prohibits other corps from reaching the same level. Maybe this is the reason fot the G7 discussions.

In the end, without the use of props, the production suffers and so do the scores.

The Corps with the largest and biggest props on the field this year is.... Spirit

If the use of props.. ( as you said) " enhances the production and executing to the same level as oher Corps creating the gap in scoring ", then why is Spirit getting such low scores compared to others if their props are by far the largest and the heaviest in all of DCI that is out on the field this year ?

Edited July 24, 2010 by BRASSO

[megadrive]

This is one thing I don't like DCI taking from BOA.

I don't need more Tarpon Springs, PCEP, or Carmel's out there with their ginormous "things" on the field.

As for scoring, whatever.

[Plan9]

The Corps with the largest and biggest props on the field this year is.... Spirit

If the use of props.. ( as you said) " enhances the production and executing to the same level as oher Corps creating the gap in scoring ", then why is Spirit getting such low scores compared to others if their props are by far the largest and the heaviest in all of DCI that is out on the field this year ?

oops.....OP, we're waiting! tic toc tic toc