Props and the scoring advantage...

[Jeff Ream]

When comparing the top corps it seems the main difference in scoring comes from the visual and GE catacgories which in turn drive other scaptions scores. When watching BD continue to increase the size of the gap the only thing that I can see seperates them are the use of Props. Last year chairs, this year Mirrors. I am not a BD hater as I think BD's show this year is the best designed production however it is not executed any better than the other top corps when judged in each visiual caption or in any of the other catagories. Again this is just my opion but they are not technically better in any one catagory except as a total production.

I honestly believe that using props to enhance the production and executing to the same level as other corps, automatically creates the gap in scoring and subsequently enforces the idea of slotting. If other corps cannot afford the cost of using props to enhance the performance it won't matter how well they execute, the gap between the haves and have nots will increase. The only other corp I see consitantly doing the same thing are the Cavaliers.

Mind you I think the productions are good for Drum Corp but I think it prohibits other corps from reaching the same level. Maybe this is the reason fot the G7 discussions.

In the end, without the use of props, the production suffers and so do the scores.

props can help...and they can hurt. either way, they usually are not an over riding factor in the judges decsions.

if used right, props can enchance the show, but really, it's more for GE. And they can hurt, especially on ensemble or on the field, because it can hamstring you in how much of the field you can use.

signed, a guy who has taught with and without props

[Ben]

props can help...and they can hurt. either way, they usually are not an over riding factor in the judges decsions.

if used right, props can enchance the show, but really, it's more for GE. And they can hurt, especially on ensemble or on the field, because it can hamstring you in how much of the field you can use.

signed, a guy who has taught with and without props

exactly. mirrors may work for BD but the columns for BAC in 06?! blah.

[oldschooldbc]

Are you seriously suggesting a trend using 2 data points as evidence?

You need to take a course in statistics.

I predict we will have many more "data points", in the near future. If BD does wipe out the competition in Indianapolis, then probably the rest of Top 12 will find ways to include props in their show. In fact, that trend will probably continue until something reverses it.

Again, they can be misused, and have the opposite effect. They can be detrimental to GE, and possibly even the execution scores, if used improperly. If props were to cost a corps a championship, then maybe show designers would stop using them.

Imagine this sceneario: a prop breaks or malfunctions on Finals night. As a result, the corps performs a show that it poorly executed, or completely out of sync. The corps finishes 3rd, when they should have finished 1st. Then props would go quicly out of style.

[Jeff Ream]

I think we'll see more trends in design change musically and visually that may or may not use props. my hunc is we may start seeing less drill as we know it

[BCC99Man]

does Phantom's spear in 2008 count as a prop?

[GUARDLING]

I predict we will have many more "data points", in the near future. If BD does wipe out the competition in Indianapolis, then probably the rest of Top 12 will find ways to include props in their show. In fact, that trend will probably continue until something reverses it.

Again, they can be misused, and have the opposite effect. They can be detrimental to GE, and possibly even the execution scores, if used improperly. If props were to cost a corps a championship, then maybe show designers would stop using them.

Imagine this sceneario: a prop breaks or malfunctions on Finals night. As a result, the corps performs a show that it poorly executed, or completely out of sync. The corps finishes 3rd, when they should have finished 1st. Then props would go quicly out of style.

Props are nothing new DCI or DCA. WOW remember cadets the western year in the 90s sometime they were like a dozen sky scrapers..lol I think drill will move more to staging in the future and some will still chose to have a traditional drill which all of it is cool...variety

[blueorginal]

I think props have their place in Drum Corps when used well and are a "eye" sore when they aren't.

My question (kinda) is at what pooint do the stop being a asset to the show.

For example this year Blue Devils Mirrors create some amazing effects to watch but at what stadium level/Steepness etc....does the effect become a blur or pinpoint that you can't see it......and say it's in the upper deck and judges are in a upper deck location and don't see the visual effect will they score down or use a "memory" of how cool it was and award for it.....

Same could be said of glassmens trunks a few years ago, cav's ladders etc...

[Plan9]

I think we'll see more trends in design change musically and visually that may or may not use props. my hunch is we may start seeing less drill as we know it

Exactly correct! But the operative phrase is "as we know it". The trend was set in place during BD's "Risky.." and slammed home last year and this year. Design is king. Props and drill are incidental actually. Shows that "effectively" use the traditional drum corps skill sets in a non-traditional, integrated design, not repeating movements and musical developments. Short statements, some revisited, some not, almost like a visual and musical maze, new at every turn. Unsettling perhaps, and certainly not what traditional drum corps fans expect. Different and performed to near perfection.

So... the use of props is not the key, and if corps think that, they might become victims to them in the future. They are simply "accoutrements" to design objectives. Watch how the mirrors are used in BD's show...designed to turn the flat green space with lines into a dimensional environment. The show moves around and within it. Expanding and contracting, multiplying and vanishing. Just like the chairs invaded vertical space.

This design is made even more dramatic by the nearly countless shows of varying traditional drum corps drill and charts that preceed it. Wonderful shows, with tremendous drill and beautiful music....and then BD trots out this beast. And scores reflect what's happening.....four championship caliber shows occupying the same space, fighting for supremacy of the similar, trading captions...and then the freak!

NOTE: "Freak" runner-ups for show design..Cadets 07 & 08; CC 09 and Cadets 10.

[Matt_S]

Agreed. Props can be used for advantage or disadvantage. Same as with electronics. In Spirit's case, the props added basically nothing to the show, and function as nothing but a district. An annoying distraction, at that.

I found their entire show to be disappointing, just as with last year. Really, what is happening to that corps is sad. Really sad. I think back to their 1980 show, where they came out with that huge horn line, and blasted away to "Georgia." That fantastic 1980 show was one of the performances that made me fall in love with drum corps. That is what what I expect to see in a Spirit show - not weird screens being pushed across a field, while some electronic voice shouts "ICON! ICON!"

That 1980 was 30 years ago. No current marchers were alive then. I wasn't alive then. I believe the current director of the Bluecoats wasn't alive then. Just putting things in perspective for you.