SCV Still dropping

[Eric M. Buckman]

I respect what both of you are saying. I just have a feeling that this show will clean up nicely when it matters most..... the 3 days leading into Quarters. I'm not sure where that will leave SCV on Finals night. Could be top 5 and it could be 8th ... right now that doesn't matter.

What I think is more important is that SCV is re-establishing themselves as risk takers ... building a program that they are proud of (because it's different from everyone else). It's a HARD HARD HARD show, and they know it. It might not get them a ring but I think the main thing it will get them is this ..............

It will attract new membership that wants to be on the cutting edge ... that wants a SUPER hard show to perform .... no matter where it places. If this happens, and I'm sure it will...... SCV will be the Rolls Royce of DCI once again. I can definitely see a few 2nds and a title in their near future if they continue on the journey they started last year with Mr. Feidler at the helm.

My hat is off to SCV's performers, staff, and administration. I love what you're doing and look forward to seeing this program blossom into it's full potential in short order. Congrats and best of luck moving forward!

If that were all that needed to be...then Madison would not have struggled nearly as much as they have...there is more to it than this...and you also have to realize that if a Corps struggles it can be an even bigger detriment to their recruiting process...the Corps still has to connect with the audience and the membership...if it doesn't then you could hemorrhage membership...

Also, and I am not saying this will or has happened...but in the unlikely event people start to view SCV as let's say Cavaliers part deux(which happened to Crossmen at a very crucial time in their history with their relationship with the Cadets)...you have an even bigger problem...which IMHO, does seem to be a small part of SCV's problem this season...their real identity...where is the SCV that we truly know...this show could have still been done with the spirit/tradition that we have come to expect from SCV...although the show has grown on me...I still feel like I just am not watching Santa Clara Vanguard.

I am a HUGE SCV fan...and 83-87 SCV were a huge reason why I finally got involved...but if I were a Rookie able to choose a Corps to march next year based on knowing SCV's history tradition, but having seen this seasons show...I am not sure i would take the plunge...but to be honest...I doubt I would run up to Concord this season either, even if they win it all...I guess what I am saying is we all join the Corps we choose to based on ,ability, access and more importantaly a connection...and, as it has been beaten to death on DCP the connection with todays fans is a very precarious one in which there is a disconnect with many Alumni of some Corps...Devs, SCV, Cadets...on and on we support our individual Corps but there just seems to be an underlying grumbling this season about direction within the activity and within individual Corps...the only two corps that I hear ALUMNI overly excited about their season top to bottom in the Elite Top 6(funny how it used to be Top 12) has been Crown and Bluecoats.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Eric M. Buckman

[fsubone]

Yes.. I have watched it. A few times even. I even replayed the visual with the sound off, and fast forwarded, paused, and rewound some of the drill.... and did likewise with some other Corps. The Visual is much easier to perform than for others in their placement range. The closer does have some demand. It has more demand than a couple of other Corps final 30 seconds. I did notice that. But on the whole, the SCV drill is is much easier than some others.... Blue Stars, Boston , Phantom come immediately to mind. There are not as many visual sets formulated. There is much running, but I do not equate this with high demand per se, nor complexity nor creativity. There is also some considerable standing and playing. There also was considerable dirt in the execution and as a result the visual patterns they were trying to complete were not as effective as some others. The GE Vis. and Vis. Ens. judges certainly disagree with my assessment. And thats that. But it's also worth noting the judging captions with the 2 judges judging the same captions were all over the lot with ALL the Corps in Atlanta, so there was some serious disagreement across the board among the judges themselves as well, and not just with some of us.

Yeah, there's dirt. Every corps still has dirt in their visual program. But saying that their program is easy to execute is almost funny. If you think this drill is easy, what was your opinion on last year's drill, which was much, much easier. Trust me, I marched it. I actually thought that Blue Stars had a much easier drill and show than SCV this year.

And the last couple of years have been a huge change of pace for SCV, moving away from the '05-'08 style, and more of the late '90s SCV. Minimalist shows, placing more emphasis on the music, and then doing the drill that compliments and enhances the music. The swagger is coming back, look at last year. SCV is back, it's not and never will be the same as the mid-80s SCV, please don't try and make it that guys. Times have changed, this won't be the SCV you remember from your time marching, but what corps is? When alums and old-time fans place these huge expectations on these corps, "why isn't the same corps as when I marched", you ruin things for future generations to establish their own identity and corps, their forced to be pigeon-holed into the old stereotypes.

[BRASSO]

Yeah, there's dirt. Every corps still has dirt in their visual program. But saying that their program is easy to execute is almost funny. If you think this drill is easy, what was your opinion on last year's drill, which was much, much easier. Trust me, I marched it. I actually thought that Blue Stars had a much easier drill and show than SCV this year.

And the last couple of years have been a huge change of pace for SCV, moving away from the '05-'08 style, and more of the late '90s SCV. Minimalist shows, placing more emphasis on the music, and then doing the drill that compliments and enhances the music. The swagger is coming back, look at last year. SCV is back, it's not and never will be the same as the mid-80s SCV, please don't try and make it that guys. Times have changed, this won't be the SCV you remember from your time marching, but what corps is? When alums and old-time fans place these huge expectations on these corps, "why isn't the same corps as when I marched", you ruin things for future generations to establish their own identity and corps, their forced to be pigeon-holed into the old stereotypes.

My post right here was about what I saw in the Visual in Atlanta this past weekend.. not the SCV visual from the 1980's compared to the visual of other Corps in that mid 1980's era . I kept my remarks confined to 2010 Atlanta this past weekend, and to the Visual side only. I did not discuss last week... last year.... 1990's... nor 1980's . I did not compare SCV's current show performances among different eras.

Edited August 3, 2010 by BRASSO

[fsubone]

My post right here was about what I saw in the Visual in Atlanta this past weekend.. not the SCV visual from the 1980's compared to the visual of other Corps in that mid 1980's era . I kept my remarks confined to 2010 Atlanta this past weekend, and to the Visual side only. I did not discuss last week... last year.... 1990's... nor 1980's SCV total show performances wih all captions considered from these previous eras.

Sorry BRASSO, the second part wasn't towards you, but the couple of old alums complaining a page or so ago. Sorry for the confusion.

[GMichael1230]

Don't count SCV out - this topic should not have been put out with a false statement ("The Blue Stars have now passed them"); why don't you say the Blue Stars have passed the Blue Devils - that being false as well.

Both are class corps who are competing using their own styles and both are entertaining in my book. I recommend the ADMIN close this topic out just due to that fact the first statement leading off this topic is incorrect.

I agree how can "now that the Blue Stars beat SCV" be allowed when its a flat out lie. Never mind different scores, different nights...it has NOT happened...at all.

G

[BRASSO]

Sorry BRASSO, the second part wasn't towards you, but the couple of old alums complaining a page or so ago. Sorry for the confusion.

I see now. No problem, fsubone.

[Eric M. Buckman]

Yeah, there's dirt. Every corps still has dirt in their visual program. But saying that their program is easy to execute is almost funny. If you think this drill is easy, what was your opinion on last year's drill, which was much, much easier. Trust me, I marched it. I actually thought that Blue Stars had a much easier drill and show than SCV this year.

And the last couple of years have been a huge change of pace for SCV, moving away from the '05-'08 style, and more of the late '90s SCV. Minimalist shows, placing more emphasis on the music, and then doing the drill that compliments and enhances the music. The swagger is coming back, look at last year. SCV is back, it's not and never will be the same as the mid-80s SCV, please don't try and make it that guys. Times have changed, this won't be the SCV you remember from your time marching, but what corps is? When alums and old-time fans place these huge expectations on these corps, "why isn't the same corps as when I marched", you ruin things for future generations to establish their own identity and corps, their forced to be pigeon-holed into the old stereotypes.

Or maybe...this is just a thought...as has been complained about...with Drum Corps...they all relatively seem the same...which has been a real indication not only this season...but the last few...please don't get me wrong...we all want Corps to continue to evolve...I think when you look at Devs, Cadets, Phantom have established an identity, their show concepts may have changed...but their identity remains...for example...close your eyes and listen, just listen to the corps...you will know their sound, their style, their arrangements and you can immediately identify with that Corps,(Jim mason hasn't recreated Star with Madison...he has rebirthed MADISON)...that isn't the case with many corps beyond...this is the point i think people miss when they say...oh you old timers can't have the past...it is the future...well pretty soon the future looks to be quite possibly...Vanilla, which is somewhat where I am with SCV this year...difficult show, it is growing on me...but when I close my eyes I don't hear SCV. I applaud Jim Mason for what he is doing...the three year plan is in effect...Madison will be back in the hunt again.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Eric M. Buckman

[fsubone]

So, you're saying SCV isn't like the corps you mentioned? I consider them to have just as strong if not stronger of an identity as those other corps. The point I was trying to make is that trying to keep a corps the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago is crazy. Drum corps evolves. It's just what happens. I'm all for corps identity, it's why I marched where I did. But corps need to evolve and change with the times. They can keep the identity, but they can't be the same corps as they used to be.

[Jeff Ream]

illegal use of the M word. bad things happen when it's said. ask Magic and Crossmen alumni

[Eric M. Buckman]

So, you're saying SCV isn't like the corps you mentioned? I consider them to have just as strong if not stronger of an identity as those other corps. The point I was trying to make is that trying to keep a corps the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago is crazy. Drum corps evolves. It's just what happens. I'm all for corps identity, it's why I marched where I did. But corps need to evolve and change with the times. They can keep the identity, but they can't be the same corps as they used to be.

unfortunately...not this season...I don't...and as much as Ballet for Martha was OK for me last season it still was a departure within their IDENTITY...I see/hear and feel more of Cavaliers in SCV than SCV. Obviously with a coed membership LOL.

It reminds me of professional sports...you really used to be able to identify with a TEAM before free agency...no matter what...the players were your neighbors they worked in the off season in the steel mills(you think its not true it actually is) Pittsburgh Steelers are the same organization and the same IDENTITY they have been from day one...which is the reason why they are the Rolls Royce in the NFL...Players have become interchangeable with free agency...the only thing that remains is the LOGO and the Location...but with the steelers you still have a real Identity in the type of player the bring in and the type of style of play they play.

I get that the uniform or the MUSIC isn't the identity of a TEAM...but it's the INTANGIBLES that make up the identity,how they play, the style they march the ATTITUDE they represent and present. Something I 'm currently lost on with SCV. I think most people may be frustrated with DEVS this year due to the show concept, yet it is clean and played very well...but they still are DEVS...they play a jazz style very well, with a relaxed, confident, in your face feel...from the hornline, John Meehan is the MAN... and the drumline...well just forget it...they know they are THE BEST and when tested they will rise to the occassion and play their ARSES off...more notes, cleanliness with a reckless abandon bigger and badder than anyone else...I could go on about phantom and cadets..etc.