DCISuperfan Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 With so much attention and focus drawn to the scores and judging of drum corps, its hardly a wonder why so many corps create programs that FIRSTLY appeal to judges and then secondly charm the crowd. My question is why do scores matter so much? Shouldnt was as fans and ticket buyers be the first priority? When a corps creates a show their goal should be to win the crowd over as much as possible because excitement and enjoyment of their programs (and ultimately all corps programs) is what is going to fill up seats, sell tickets, and make DCI a bigger organization am I right? Who cares if a handful of "judges" say that one show is better or worse than another one, when the judges are not what is making DCI a more successful organization? This is not to say that judging is not important, but to me, if DCI wants to get bigger, they need to get their corps to create mind blowing, amazing shows that have the crowd throwing babies. A show like this is what is going to get people that are not familiar to DCI at all, interested in the activity. Do you guys think that DCI needs to switch its focus from "and the 2010 world champion is" to more of "that quadruple block rotation while blasting a perfectly tuned chord that will have your ears and eyes in ecstasy is arguably the coolest thing I have ever seen or heard"? Oh and btw, I have only been on DCP since the start of this season, so I dont know if this has kind of topic has been beaten into the gound lol if so, forgive me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 The judges matter and scores matter because its a competitive activity. Pleasing the crowd is important but, just like scores and judging, its far from the only thing. I loved the aspect of busting tail and working hard to perfect a show and be the best I could with other members. Yes, pleaseing the crowd is fun, but it should be the result of what is being done...........not the reason for what is being done. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 well I think the visceral should weigh more than the intellectual when applying GE, although most judges do the opposite. I would not mind text voting contributing to 10% of the final score so that the top 5 would be totally up for grabs right now. But if the score was left 100% to the fans, it would be a fight between Madison and Phantom every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 (edited) We need judges, because while balancing the crowd entertainment aspect, we also need to measure the precision\performance excellence of the corps. That is why we have performance captions and effect captions. I think, at this point, the effect caption needs to be looked at, and a way needs to be found to make that more in alignment with the effect a show has upon its audience. in general, if a show is not drawing the crowd in, it should not be receiving as high of an effect score as a show that has standing ovations throughout. That multiple-standing-o corps, (im just making an example, this isnt supposed to represent anyone), may not be as clean as the one with less crowd reaction, but thats why that other corps should be scoring highly in the captions that reward technical excellence. The reason we have to have judges for the effect judging, as opposed to text or applause-o-meter, is because with those other methods you would introduce a wide variation of scores depending on the region of the show. Edited August 8, 2010 by AlexL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCISuperfan Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Ok maybe I didnt express my feelings correctly. I know and agree that judging is a VERY critical part of the activity and because this activity is competitive in nature it needs to be judged. I overall like how things are being judged right now, i just wish that the corps would create programs that speak more to the crowd and less to the judges. I mean, how cool would it be if every corps took that kind of approach and focused on just pumping out some of the coolest stuff they can, and then let the judges judge that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bccadet09 Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Ok maybe I didnt express my feelings correctly. I know and agree that judging is a VERY critical part of the activity and because this activity is competitive in nature it needs to be judged. I overall like how things are being judged right now, i just wish that the corps would create programs that speak more to the crowd and less to the judges. I mean, how cool would it be if every corps took that kind of approach and focused on just pumping out some of the coolest stuff they can, and then let the judges judge that? It would be cool. However....I know the judges do not care what kind of shows corps produce. They really don't. All they care about is who does it the best period. Uniform color doesn't have to do with it either.... This alone does not take away from the entertainment the crowd gets. We will always be entertained. We already have our favorite shows this year, and our list isn't the same. Not everyone likes Crown 2010 and not everyone hates BD 2010. Judges matter for the sake of feedback they address to each corps, and to determine who has done the best with what they have (and not necessarily the most entertaining show). The crowd handles that part.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 It would be cool.However....I know the judges do not care what kind of shows corps produce. They really don't. All they care about is who does it the best period. Uniform color doesn't have to do with it either.... This alone does not take away from the entertainment the crowd gets. We will always be entertained. We already have our favorite shows this year, and our list isn't the same. Not everyone likes Crown 2010 and not everyone hates BD 2010. Judges matter for the sake of feedback they address to each corps, and to determine who has done the best with what they have (and not necessarily the most entertaining show). The crowd handles that part.... The effect caption *should* be an approximation of the effect on the crowd. What the judges reward is what the corps do, and if the crowd is forgotten, less will come to shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGarrett Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 (edited) You can find posts about my concerns regarding the judging system going back many years here on DCP. I think we have OVER complicated the system and we give back too much in credit that does not equally balance out obvious mistakes made. I agree that it does sometimes seem like the whole reason for the performance from an entertainment point-of-view is completely overshadowed by corps trying exclusively to please and perform to a judging criteria, and leaves fans who came for entertainment asking: "What did I just see and hear?" However, the performance must be judged, by judges, in that entertaining show or not from the fans point-of-view, there are complexities that only a judge right down there on the field can pull out and decipher. I have joked many times about the "Applause-O-meter" - and I know that's not exactly what the OP has in mind. But that type of thing would never work. Perhaps a "electronic doo job thingy" at everyones seat for the show, and then - ala "America's Funniest Home Videos" - the audience could all judge for their favorites on Brandt Crockers (or whoever that guy is...LOL) command: "Laaaaaaadies & Gennnnnntlemen... PLEASE cast your votes NOowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!" Edited August 8, 2010 by GGarrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 We are forgetting the third and probably most important group that the corps must make their shows appeal to....... the current and future members. Yes, it is important to make the shows appeal to the fans..... they provide a great deal of the money and after all, the activity is a form of entertainment. Yes, it is important to make the shows appeal to the judges..... that's how you win..... and winning attracts more talent, more money, more fans, etc..... But I think it is most important to make the shows appeal to the members..... they also provide a significant amount of money... plus they actually are the activity itself. A lot of times we forget that what appeals to legacy fans may not always appeal to current marching members, and vice versa. I always point to BD and SCV having shows that this year seem to be not as popular among fans.... but to my music major friends (which let's face... music majors make up the vast majority of the top corps), these are probably the two hippest shows out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 any audience appreciation award should be separate from what judges are paid to do with assigning numbers as the behest of the member corps who give them the judging criteria and tell them how to interpret it in the first place. the amount of anger over what the corps, themselves, choose to be rated on is truly baffling. judging is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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