World Class Motivation

[Jeff Ream]

one, Crown treats their kids very well. two, any kind of physical activity could have triggered the injury.

I marched several years of drum corps. worst injury....i had a bruise on my shin. How'd I get it? I fell off a cooler on the bus cooler surfing and the driver had to slam on the brakes to avoid an accident.

i hurt my knee horribly playing basketball, and as a result of me going down when my knee popped, my lung collapsed.

and we practiced basketball a lot less than we practiced in drum corps, and in basketball i did far worse than laps or pushups for screwing something up.

[The Other Mike]

The more I think about this, I call BS

A) around drum corps for 48 seasons and you never knew about the paddle in the old days?

B) around 48 seasons and don't know about the old days and getting "called to the back of the bus" because you ticked ?

C) around all this time and just joined DCP to post this against CC, yea, sure I believe you're a Cavie

D) what have you got against the Cavies to pretend to be one postig this BS ? Every Cavie I've known has class

E) did you walk home from Indy ?, why wait 5 days to post ?

[acanadeanhick]

God help the members of corps ten years from now if we keep moving in this direction.

This was my first post on DCP and will be my last. I was trying to do something positive and it got turned competely around. What seems to amaze me is I feel many of the people responding are not, nor have aver been members of a drum corps. This is so very, very sad.

So very wrong.

But its the internet, its an anonymous place - you don't need to know who I am or where I come from beyond that I marched. That is my prerogative.

And as to the first part of what I quoted - its moving AWAY from this direction. I am not aware of the situation you speak of, but it is presumptuous to assume the broken leg was a direct result of difficult basics blocks with punishment for not being up to par.

[Dir_en_X]

I only marched in Open Class, but it was said to my section that there are two motivators: Fear and Pride. Fear motivates you by making you think "If I mess this up the staff will make us I'll run/do pushups/be held over for a meal/get yelled at." Pride motivates you to not make errors because you have the idea in your head that you are a member of Corps X and Corps X has a tradition of passionate members that wouldn't let their on or off field responsibilities slack.

In total I think I was punished 3 times by running or other physical workouts. All the other times I ran was for morning run or for conditioning in sectionals. (IE play, run, play, run)

[RetiredJedi]

wjk1946: I respect that you have a concern and asked for feedback about it. Where you lost me is when you became offended that others didn't agree with you. If you believe in something then stand up for it. Provide me with some logical thoughts or factual information and maybe you might change my mind. But to storm off and sulk by saying you'll never post here again, frankly, leaves you little possibility of swaying anyone to your point of view.

[mophilda]

If I were Ryan I might be offended that you assumed I was in the "tick block."

I mean, thems fightin' words...

The "Fear and Pride" poster pretty much hit the nail on the head. In educational terms they may call in it intrinsic and extrinsic motivation or positive and negative reinforcement.

Whatever gets the info from your head into the member's.

There were years I got my tail beat and years that we took a more "personally accountable" approach. Truth be told, with younger membership that personally accountable approach wasn't as successful. How many 16 year olds do you know that are personally accountable and mentally focused without something making them that way? They are a rarity. a few push ups or laps won't kill a kid. Really, they probably won't even put a dent in the energy for the day.

A good staff member can have a really hard time combating apathetic or selfish (they do exist!) members. Sometimes the only thing that will reach them is something that impacts them immediately, right now. Pushups are an old school standard. So are laps. They are actually beneficial to the corps goal, so if it isn't a huge period of time spent on those forms of punishment, then it isn't really a total waste, IMO.

[Granny Smith]

This kind of "teaching" is the sign of a bad teacher. "I don't know how to make this kid better so... I'm going to make this kid do push ups! That'll teach 'em"

Do you think the membership is purposely not doing what you asked? Is that why they deserved push ups or laps? Also, if you make a kid do push ups for an error that is called Corporal Punishment. I hope that nobody is doing that to their kids. A great instructor motivates his kids to work hard because they all share a common vision. This may not be the answer you're looking for but I just wanted to add my two cents

Ashy

I couldn't disagree more. It's this philosophy that has produced a generation of undisciplined deadbeats frankly--people who have no respect for authority and a general disregard for responsibility.

Perhaps it would help your thinking if you thought of it as a "consequence" versus "punishment." This is a foundational life lesson folks. None of us are free to make choices without some kind of consequence. That includes both positive and negative. Sheesh, you're talking like doing pushups is the equivalent of pulling someone's fingernails out.

I have worked with young people for many many years (too many to count) and the reality is that pushups may be necessary. A consequence is something that MUST "hurt." If it doesn't "hurt" then it has no effect.

For example, if you knew that you could go out on the interstate and after being pulled over for going 100 mph in a 65 that the police office gave you a ticket for $1.50 and your insurance would not go up, what would you do?

The pushups serve several very positive purposes. 1. It alerts the young person to be more focused in their performance, 2. It may actually strengthen them, 3. It teaches them life lessons.

Having said all of that, it's critical that the instructors do this while maintaining their own attitude. A caustic, explosive anger has no part in training.

[mlubandgroupie]

Making kids do push-ups is NOT corporal punishment. Corporal punishment, by definition, is the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming a wrongdoer, or to deter attitudes or behaviour deemed unacceptable. The term usually refers to methodically striking the offender with an implement, whether in judicial, domestic, or educational settings. Please do not exaggerate or mis-define a term to make a point, valid or not.

I have no dog in this discussion...so to speak. BUT, according to the Federal Department of Justice (DOJ), requiring a kid to do push-ups, run, etc. is considered corporal punishment. I work in a "center for youth" aka juvenile prison. Several states have been sued by the DOJ for using push-ups, running, etc as a form of punishment.

Now, back to the discussion.

[RetiredJedi]

I'll share what I witnessed as abuse:

We were housed with another Top 12 Corps during tour. Their drumline was rehearsing a particularly dirty section of their show. The drum staff threw sticks, rocks, and drum keys at the tickers.

That's 100% true. It's also 100% abuse.

[The Other Mike]

If I were Ryan I might be offended that you assumed I was in the "tick block."

I mean, thems fightin' words...

You bring up a great point which begs this question:

I wonder if the OP just got home from tour and the OP is the one ###### off because they were in the tick box for being a huge problem with a bad attitude most of the summer ?

Seems the OP was really laying it on to prove they were something other than a current marching member, yet has no clue how really bad things once were to say "how bad things have become" ?

The OP sounds more like a kid who wasn't mature enough to say "this is way more than I expected and I should go home" so they ###### and moaned all summer getting no sympathy and came here expecting to find some by USING Ryans unfortunate accident as fuel for their fight.

the OP seems way too mad to not be directly involved, maybe some kid's clueless mom or dad ? Why the comment about the sex of the player?

After not getting any sympathy or gaining any support to storm the halls of DCI to FORCE changes, they promise not to post again.

Hummmmmm, interesting