DCP DCI Round Table Discussion

[mobrien]

How to grow the activity?

You can't grow the current World Class model. As much as people screamed about the G7 proposal, at least it correctly identified the elephant in the room; WC drum corps is expensive and hard to do well, and very few know how to do it, so they should be looking at a different model.

And the model is WGI. Smaller groups of performers given a range of performance categories and formats to choose from, with an emphasis on weekend competition. You want to grow drum corps? Sit down and study what WGI did and emulate success.

End of story. But stop trying to be BD or Cavaliers and using them as the metric for success - most everyone else who has tried has failed, which should tell us something about how hard it is to do at that level. Find another system that allows for success and growth on a very localized part-time basis.

Edited October 9, 2010 by mobrien

[thirdcoast]

How to grow the activity?

You can't grow the current World Class model. As much as people screamed about the G7 proposal, at least it correctly identified the elephant in the room; WC drum corps is expensive and hard to do well, and very few know how to do it, so they should be looking at a different model.

And the model is WGI. Smaller groups of performers given a range of performance categories and formats to choose from, with an emphasis on weekend competition. You want to grow drum corps? Sit down and study what WGI did and emulate success.

End of story. But stop trying to be BD or Cavaliers and using them as the metric for success - most everyone else who has tried has failed, which should tell us something about how hard it is to do at that level. Find another system that allows for success and growth on a very localized part-time basis.

Well you say very few know how to do it, I saw 23 Corps in 2010 do it very well but thats just me.

Edited October 9, 2010 by thirdcoast

[mobrien]

Well you say very few know how to do it, I saw 23 Corps in 2010 do it very well but thats just me.

There are exactly TWO corps who have moved from the non-finalist ranks to being contenders in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, there are a number of others who have been showing up each year and failing to make any significant move up the ranks.

Just being on the field isn't the same as succeeding, competitively. And every year the non-Finalists hang on without making a serious move up in the standings is a year that it's going to be harder and harder for them to compete for the best auditionees. The talent-rich will continue to get richer, and everyone else will have to work harder to fill their ranks. Not a recipe for long term across-the-board growth in that particular part of the activity.

The "game" in World Class, as it now stands, is hard to do well unless you have a particularly good staff and management team. Rather than plodding on and counting on Blue Devils, Cavaliers, or Cadets to win again, why not look for ways to create new types of competitions for the vast majority of corps out there, formats that anyone can compete at and have the potential to win.

Edited October 10, 2010 by mobrien

[Jeff Ream]

the payout system in place from DCI to the corps IS a form of revenue sharing, tiered on placement.

Thought I would throw this out there. Why have we not tried revenue sharing?

[Jeff Ream]

How to grow the activity?

You can't grow the current World Class model. As much as people screamed about the G7 proposal, at least it correctly identified the elephant in the room; WC drum corps is expensive and hard to do well, and very few know how to do it, so they should be looking at a different model.

And the model is WGI. Smaller groups of performers given a range of performance categories and formats to choose from, with an emphasis on weekend competition. You want to grow drum corps? Sit down and study what WGI did and emulate success.

End of story. But stop trying to be BD or Cavaliers and using them as the metric for success - most everyone else who has tried has failed, which should tell us something about how hard it is to do at that level. Find another system that allows for success and growth on a very localized part-time basis.

what's funny is, promotion to World Class is not based on comeptitive results at all. it is based on internal organization metrics.

[Jeff Ream]

you have the same thing in baseball? The Pirates last had a winning season when? 1992?

in any competitive endeavor, you will have have's and have not's. The key question you should actually be asking is this:

what is it those lower placing corps are doing that are not retaining kids for several years and building a powerhouse?

I look at a corps like Blue Stars, that had a loyal contingent of kids that stayed from D3 to Open Class finalists. That is a model to explore

There are exactly TWO corps who have moved from the non-finalist ranks to being contenders in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, there are a number of others who have been showing up each year and failing to make any significant move up the ranks.

Just being on the field isn't the same as succeeding, competitively. And every year the non-Finalists hang on without making a serious move up in the standings is a year that it's going to be harder and harder for them to compete for the best auditionees. The talent-rich will continue to get richer, and everyone else will have to work harder to fill their ranks. Not a recipe for long term across-the-board growth in that particular part of the activity.

The "game" in World Class, as it now stands, is hard to do well unless you have a particularly good staff and management team. Rather than plodding on and counting on Blue Devils, Cavaliers, or Cadets to win again, why not look for ways to create new types of competitions for the vast majority of corps out there, formats that anyone can compete at and have the potential to win.

[Lance]

" delusions " all right. I'll buy a steak dinner for any poster that can find a single comment from a single poster on DCP that declared they wanted all the 12 Finalists Corps in a row to look and sound like the 2010 Madison Scouts, or the 2000 Cadets, and as a result are not for some diversity in the shows among the top 12. The fact is, there has NEVER been a period in the history of DCI that all the Corps in the top 12 were alike in their style, theme, approch, etc.... nor have Drum Corps fans in any era wanted all the Corps to look and sound alike. Nor have they believed that if all the Corps were the same, more fans would be drawn to the activity as a result. The reality is, it's NEVER been the case.

So.... frankly,anyone that thinks otherwise is involved in " delusional " thinking, imo , and it's not even filled with " grandeur ".

lol

[garfield]

lol

I was at least expecting a frozen steak to show up on my front porch...

[audiodb]

There are exactly TWO corps who have moved from the non-finalist ranks to being contenders in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, there are a number of others who have been showing up each year and failing to make any significant move up the ranks.

OK, you lost me here. Considering the following corps....

Carolina Crown

Bluecoats

Blue Stars

Academy

....I would say there are more than two that have made "a significant move up the ranks".

Just being on the field isn't the same as succeeding, competitively. And every year the non-Finalists hang on without making a serious move up in the standings is a year that it's going to be harder and harder for them to compete for the best auditionees. The talent-rich will continue to get richer, and everyone else will have to work harder to fill their ranks. Not a recipe for long term across-the-board growth in that particular part of the activity.

So, in a sense, we would both like more competitive parity.

I think we'll probably disagree on how to achieve it, though. Sounds like you want the Hopkins approach....more stratification. If there's too wide a gap between top and bottom of world-class, split them into two (or more) classes. I look at the historical trends, and do not see how baseless stratification has fostered the existence of more corps....quite the opposite, actually. Even stratification based on corps size has fallen out of favor recently....but it isn't much of an issue in world-class anyway, where only one corps remains under 100 members.

[audiodb]

You can't grow the current World Class model.

Why not?

As much as people screamed about the G7 proposal, at least it correctly identified the elephant in the room; WC drum corps is expensive and hard to do well, and very few know how to do it, so they should be looking at a different model.

Why not just make the current model cheaper?

And the model is WGI. Smaller groups of performers given a range of performance categories and formats to choose from, with an emphasis on weekend competition. You want to grow drum corps? Sit down and study what WGI did and emulate success.

But we don't have the hundreds of competing units necessary to support a robust array of weekend-only options, like the winter guard activity does (or like drum corps did back in 1972). What should we do in the meantime, while we're waiting for the 150 new corps to get up and running?

But stop trying to be BD or Cavaliers and using them as the metric for success - most everyone else who has tried has failed, which should tell us something about how hard it is to do at that level. Find another system that allows for success and growth on a very localized part-time basis.

But the kids currently marching gravitate toward the touring experience. Of the roughly 7,000 auditionees in a given season, about 6,000 of them are trying out for full-tour corps. How do you envision addressing that?