after seeing Star of Indiana Alum

[Michael Boo]

It won. Doesn't mean it was entertaining.

We come from different planets.

[mgarside83]

I feel your pain. I'm totally in the same boat. So, I guess I'll take this opportunity to illustrate the great divide between us dino's and the new kids on the block. I have seen several arguments about using great source material that stands on it's own and then building a program around it (OLD SCHOOL).

While sitting in initial brainstorm meetings for a winter drumline I was teaching this past season, something struck me right upside the head. The blatant difference between the old way and the new way was explained to me as such:

"See that's the problem with you Dan ..... you still want to pick all this awesome music, splice a show together and then worry about the concept after the fact. You have to pick something simple for a total concept first if you want to be successful in this day and age. Pick the number like "3" done by Vanguard. Steps .... a letter, colors, a season ... it doesn't matter. You have to pick this Visual concept and then find source material that we can work into the overall design".

My jaw hit the floor. I had never worked with someone that I was at total opposite ends of the spectrum from a design philosophy standpoint. I then went through my mental catalogue of just about every show in recent memory .. and they all fell under this design philosophy. Concept first ... visual second .... music third. I suddenly felt quite ill.

Us Dino's firmly believe that great source material can make a great show .. and the visual will just magically work its way into the program .. and in truth it really is magical when it's done right. Madison did a show based on this philosophy this year and the crowd ate them up. BD went with a "Concept" and rammed in a bunch of music that fit the "mood" of that concept to a T. Concept first, visual second, music third.

And there is the great divide. If this is truly what is expected of designers today, it's no wonder we don't see more SCV 87, Suncoast 85, Madison 88, Phantom 89, Star 90, Cavies 87 ... etc etc etc.

What WE EXPECT from a great drum corps show is no longer part of the recipe for success in modern drum corps, WGI, BOA, USSBA, you name it. The New School just doesn't understand our logic anymore. The divide is so wide, it makes it nearly impossible to enjoy modern shows for much more than a few corps .. just as my friend said in the quote above.

These shows don't connect with us anymore because the corps are trying to connect on a conceptual level rather than a visceral level. Music is not the key focus ... even though it's the most important thing to the masses. All we can do is hope that the tide swings the other way as drum corps takes it natural cycle ........... if they stop tinkering with things in the board room .... I think we'll get back to some great source material married to great visual rather than the inverse.

That is all.

I agree with this somewhat, but not totally. I fell that Phantom still makes music their top priority. You can't listen to their 2010 show and not be sucked into the music, top to bottom.

SCV too. While I didn't necessarily like their show this year, the played Bartok. Perhaps it would have been better recieved had they made it more "drum corps".

I do think that the concept, music visual trend started happening with the success the Cavies were having with it in the early 2000's. And why not? They are not my favorite shows to listen to on CD, but they are not going for the best audio recording award either. Combined with their visual program, the music made total sense. 2002 Frameworks, tied for highest score ever, isn't ground breaking musically. But that music married to the visual program, absolutely outstanding.

It just seems when a corps goes for great music, vis suffers (Phantom Regiment) and when you go for great vis, music suffers. So if you are going for music, it has to be great. Same for visual. The other has to support that moment completely.

The way I try to design shows is design moment by moment. Is this a music moment, or a visual moment? Music -What can we do visually to support the music here? Some groups are more successful in one or the other and tend to lean that way, but both are present thoughout their shows. Phantom has visual moments. Cavies have music moments. But Phantom is def more music focused and Cavies are more vis. focused. That's who they are. Their concepts tend to be more musical or more visual. I don'tthink this is a bad thing for the activty at all. Let the corps define theselves. I just don't think we need to change the activity. The only problem I see at all is using recordings and voice. Electronics aren't bad either. BD 04 was able to create really cool timbres from real instruments that wouldn't have been able to be heard otherwise. Just make voice, recordings, and synth illegal. Strictly amp pit percussion intruments, nothing else. That, to me, would be perfect drum corps.

[Hrothgar15]

We come from different planets.

I think I come from the one whose inhabitants don't have unshakable biases towards a corps as former members. With no association with any organization in the activity, I have no biases towards or against any corps, or at least attempt to minimize any subconscious ones that may arise. I try to evaluate each program each year independently of the corps performing it.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Hrothgar15

[cowtown]

It’s as much today’s fan and the drum corps model as anything

Drum corps was more local, more blue collar and more like a softball team as opposed to today where its more like Interlochen summer marching seminar based in a town that none of the marchers have ever been to and that doesn't know or care about the corps either

A lot of the Blood, Sweat and Tears in the activity was replaced with Bartok, the reactions similar to their sources followed

Drum corps didn’t use to be this dorky (but marching band always was nerd city) and the dorks brought their oddly displayed passion to the activity. So instead of acting up and going nuts at a show they discuss musical depth, color and textures while watching the DVD’s – a live show might ruin their paler, so they only hit one each year And if they get too excited at that one show, they’ll have to use their inhaler so they just judge at a safe distance, on an intellectual level, because you know a wall of 80 horns is all about the intellectual senses, right?

I am dinosaur hear me roar....in numbers easily ignored

[N.E. Brigand]

I think I come from the one whose inhabitants don't have unshakable biases towards a corps as former members. With no association with any organization in the activity, I have no biases towards or against any corps, or at least attempt to minimize any subconscious ones that may arise. I try to evaluate each program each year independently of the corps performing it.

Well, some people from your planet seem to like "Machine" very much. Wasn't it the first championship to win the "Spirit of Disney" award?

[Michael Boo]

I think I come from the one whose inhabitants don't have unshakable biases towards a corps as former members. With no association with any organization in the activity, I have no biases towards or against any corps, or at least attempt to minimize any subconscious ones that may arise. I try to evaluate each program each year independently of the corps performing it.

I'd like to visit there some day. So might others from the planet Earth.

[atlvalet]

What atlvalet said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say hi to M. Bolla for me next time you see him ;)

[supersop]

I come from advertising, which is the idea biz. Everything starts with a concept. Without a concept, you have nothing. The problem is, in a musical setting, without great music, you have nothing. Having a great concept is fine, but music trumps everything. It should, IMHO, go something like this:

1) Music

2) Design/Concept

3) Visual

That's my exact recipe. In my long post, I was showing how "I" was put on notice that I'm out of the loop on modern design. That was a highly dissatisfying day to say the least.

[glory]

It’s as much today’s fan and the drum corps model as anything

Drum corps was more local, more blue collar and more like a softball team as opposed to today where its more like Interlochen summer marching seminar based in a town that none of the marchers have ever been to and that doesn't know or care about the corps either ...

Exactly. Thing is, though, drum corps changed not because the Interlochen crowd organized a coup. Drum corps changed because the softball folks quit, leaving the music majors to make the decisions that once were made exclusively by the local crowd. There was no conspiracy to drive the dinosaurs to extinction. Only a blue collar migration from the cities to the suburbs and a different frame of mind.

HH

[84BDsop]

...and...

The only niche smaller than DCI is DCA. And note that my target audience was DCI, thus posting in the DCI threads.

Keep up the good fight, though!

PS: corpsreps.com doesn't mention it for 2003, whilst 2005 is attributed to Franz Schubert's Ave Maria. Oops.

West Coast fans heard it from 2002 if not earlier....it's Pacific Crest's corps song and on field warmup...first time I heard it from 2002.

As for B's Feast....I'd never heard it before Star played it...was FLOORED by the show (all time fave Star program), and bought a cassette (remember those?) of the source. Lost it years back, so thanks for the link!