DCW article regarding touring . . .

[rkfdPRphan]

Actually, I wasn't thinking about Teal and Spirit as much as I was thinking about Crossmen, Troopers, and Cascades. And no, four corps shows wouldn't be viable.

It would be easier for Troopers to go to the Midwest - Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin

Crossmen to the Atlanta area.

Not sure where the Cascades are located, but sounds like California for them?

[Jeff Ream]

Sorry to quote myself, but I don't know what the answer is to this problem. Would regionalization cut the costs? How can you get costs to participate down without gutting the tour? I don't know. Does it take 50 people on staff to compete now? Do you need an entire bus or RV for staff? Do you have to have 2 full tractor trailers with the super kitchen on wheels? Where can you get it down where middle to lower middle class kids can afford to pull this thing off? And I think shortening the overall tour is not the answer. Maybe change where you go and how far you go early on?

nalization may not cut costs, but it would bring DCI back to areas that have not had a show in years...and many of those fans don't want to travel far to see a show.

20 years ago, my area ( and I'm looking 2 hours in all directions) had roughly 10 shows...and Allentown. This year, if my math is correct, I see about 5. So half of the markets that once had drum corps now don't....and Allentown is one of those 5 markets left.

[mgarside83]

Also, if drum corps becomes more affordable and viable, more corps will begin to pop up in each region. But how cool would it be to have East, Midwest, and Western powerhouses meeting eachother for the first time a week before finals? Or even at finals?

[rkfdPRphan]

Also, if drum corps becomes more affordable and viable, more corps will begin to pop up in each region. But how cool would it be to have East, Midwest, and Western powerhouses meeting eachother for the first time a week before finals? Or even at finals?

I think youd be able to sell a lot more tickets to that 'first' head to head competition, too.

[Kamarag]

Also, if drum corps becomes more affordable and viable, more corps will begin to pop up in each region. But how cool would it be to have East, Midwest, and Western powerhouses meeting eachother for the first time a week before finals? Or even at finals?

Actually, I firmly believe that the opposite might happen. Kids today aren't interested in the regional touring model. They are far more interested in the national tour, and where the corps is going. I've seen this first hand over the last few years. Moving to a regional model might make fiscal sense for existing corps, but I doubt it will have much impact on creating new corps. We won't suddenly see hordes of new corps spring up out of nowhere.

[WWonka]

I think youd be able to sell a lot more tickets to that 'first' head to head competition, too.

Yeah that all sounds good. And I was the one that brought up the regionalization can of worms. But there is no interest in it. That bridge was burned a long time ago. I think they are just looking for ways to change DC to put more butts in the seats for the existing corps at existing venues. Radical changes in substance not necessarily a change in how you do it but more what you are doing. Sorry for getting us off on that tangent.

Now onto a real topic:

Lasers - Should they be legal? And if they are will there be a DCI supplied setup or will everyone have to carry their own?

Edit: And can they be Shark mounted?

Edited September 2, 2010 by WWonka

[rkfdPRphan]

Actually, I firmly believe that the opposite might happen. Kids today aren't interested in the regional touring model. They are far more interested in the national tour, and where the corps is going. I've seen this first hand over the last few years. Moving to a regional model might make fiscal sense for existing corps, but I doubt it will have much impact on creating new corps. We won't suddenly see hordes of new corps spring up out of nowhere.

Hummmmmmm....

If I were to compare drum corps to football:

Local competition - teams getting better competing locally

Then you have sectionals and finals.

I've watched crowds really grow as they follow their favorite team from local competition, to regionals and then to finals.

[Jeff Ream]

One way to create larger audiences is to provide more, and more affordable, opportunities for kids to march. Lower the cost of entry for new groups by cutting back on national touring. Things may sparse at first, but hopefully such a measure could create new corps and allow them a more sustainable existence. It's good to hear some directors paying lip service to the idea, but it would be nice if some real action were taken.

The quest to draw in "outside audiences" is commendable, but it often seems to be based on hope and little else. Nonetheless, there are some intriguing ideas in the article and in this thread, and I hope some of them are attempted.

One more idea. Whenever the discussion on entertainment comes up the focus inevitable falls on the top corps. What about the lower placing World Class corps? I've been following DCI for over a decade now, and have done my best to watch and support every corps out there, and have urged others to do the same. But many of these groups do themselves no favors when, year after year, they put out bland productions that are (I presume) supposed to be artistic but which end up being neither artistic or competitive, much less entertaining. There are exceptions, but on the whole this has struck me as a serious, if overlooked, problem. Getting these groups to cut loose a little bit may help out all of drum corps.

I am going to agree on your last point entirely. it has gotten a little better, but you are pretty much dead on

[Jeff Ream]

I serously doubt DCI will flourish by targeting theatre and ballet audiences. In fact, the way I see it, the ballet and theatre arts are hurting DCI more than they could ever help it.

I came from a competitive high school band program. What got me into drum corps was how cool it was. Phantom 96 was cool, dark, huge sounding. BD 94,95,96,97,99 those drumlines were totally Bad@#$! Cavies 95 or 2000. SCV late 90's early 2000's. I'm not an old drum corps guy, but this is a more complex problem than simply DCI. Competitive marching band in high school is in trouble. More and more directors are taking the easy route and fielding only football bands. High school and college age youth are the future of this activity. They are the future members, fans and sponsors. If we don't appeal to them, we die.

No offense to any MM efforts, this is strictly critisizing design efforts, but how cool is Cadets 2010 show to a high school kid? This show would appeal to little kids and old ladies. It was very cute. Not exactly 96 Phantom, or 90's BD. I didn't find it appealing at all, all the stuff I wanted to see and hear I was distracted from. That's not a knock on the cadets either. A lot of groups I appreciated were very hard to enjoy through all the "sophistication" and "artistry". I teach high school competitive drumlines. My most effective recruiting tool is "The Line" DVD from BD 95, 96 and 97. Also Keeping up with the Jonz 2004. What makes these appealing to youth? Often times, I am embarrased to show high school kids some of the modern shows that are coming out. This is a general statement though, there are a few modern shows I love. I loved Phantom this year, for instance, but even they were a little "artsy". Kids don't want to look or be a part of something that will get them made fun of by their peers. We are already fighting a stigma attached to the activity, then we feed into it......what did you think would happen?

I also think that we need to understand that youth control much more of the consumer market than even most adult demographics do. What pop groups are at the top of the charts and bringing in the most money? The ones that appeal to youth. Most of these groups do not even put out very good music, but they have a "cool" image. Kids get their parents to buy them merchandise, take them to concerts or shows, buy them cell phones. Kids could bring entire families to DCI events.

I'm not saying that we change what the activity is, but I know the kids I have worked with over the years would connect much easier to shows that weren't designed so artsy, and were more Bad#$%. Kids want to be bad@#@ and want to feel Bad!@#@. I want more bad@#$ shows myself!

Some corps do a decent job of this now. However, I wouldn't use Madison as the leading example either. Madison is going in a direction that really appeals to fans from the 70's and 80's. The kids I teach who are up on the activity, were not talking about Madison much at all after this year. They liked Cavies, Phantom, Crown and Bluecoats. However, these kids didn't LOVE these shows top to bottom. There were parts of every show they didn't like. Cheesy dancing, or play acting. They also didn't like the electronics any more than the old drum corps people did. It didn't make them as angry, but it certainly isn't attracting them to the activity.

Financially, I have taught many super talented kids who wanted more than anything to march in DCI, who couldn't afford dues. I do think reasonable dues costs need to be found. High school band booster organizations have helped to fund some, but these groups are just as strapped as the corps are right now.

Maybe other people's experiences are completely different than mine, but I def. am finding it harder and harder to use DCI materials as recruiting tools for getting kids to join competitive marching band at the high school level. And if we ignore that, we are cutting the entire activity off at it's heels. That, to me, is an image problem. This year we took a large group of kids and their parents to a DCI show to introduce them to the activity and recruit them to join the high school marching band. Some of the dads had a look on their face watching the shows like I was trying to recruit their son to be in ballet, when he wants him to play football. The NFL is putting out a much cooler image than we are currently, what kid doesn't want to be an NFL star? They are bad!@^@

In a nut shell, I think DCI needs to be more bad@@#!!!!

A lot of good food for thought in here

[Jeff Ream]

Couple of thoughts here... First, and with no mention of my agreement or disagreement, can you tell me where the market will finish tomorrow, or where interest rates will be Monday at noon? Point is, the economy is NOT the problem; rather, lack of planning to accomodate the natural swings of the economy is the problem. That is done at the corps level, certainly, but also must be done at the DCI level as well. When the "elite" corps are constantly demanding more payout from DCI to accomodate their own lack of planning it leaves DCI in the untenable position of having not enough cushion to survive.

Second, who has it been who's pulled us into the "artsy" direction in the first place? How can you agree with him now when he's been so instrumental in putting the activity in the position it now finds itself?

IMO, it's both your points and his points. the economic downturn the last 3 years has been far worse than anyone could have imagined. so yes, long range planning is great, and should be done, but if times get worse than ever expected, you can't always be totally prepared.