DCW article regarding touring . . .

[kmansdrummin]

QUOTE (sarnia sam @ Nov 7 2010, 06:52 PM)

The key words from Hopkins are: Can we figure out how to be relevant again...

I have read the posts on this thread and arguments about the touring model, judging, etc, that are totally missing the point.

what the ^&%$ is the product?

Obviously, it's one most people aren't buying.

AND, it all hinges on the music, not the drill or choreogrpahy or what ever it's being called at the moment. Yes the drill is pretty, and yes it looks very hard to do, but if people can't follow the music, they punch another button.

It's very simple.

Last night I was at the reunion of my corps. A stage band was created four years ago populated mostly by vets of the corps and a few from other corps. They played arrangments of tunes from one of the parent corps from the 70s, and arrangements from the other from the late 60s and early 70s - and one tune from the era I marched in. (note to Ron Allard - only Ontario from the 71 show got left out).

My girlfriend, with no exposure to drum corps of any kind until I met her, turned to me and said - this really does send a chill up the spine.

No drill, no uniforms, no football field.

It happened to me too. Fantastic arrangements (by Steve Bailey) made it a night to remember.

This same person (my girlfriend) has been a work in progress to get her tuned into some of what my life has been. She doesn't get DCI of the modern era, not at all, She somewhat gets the 70s and 80s because she can follow the music (I think she's just lacking the live exposure). She really liked the corps at Rochester because for the most part thay played complete tunes - not snippets. By the way, she's an artist and a museum designer whose work you've likely seen; she gets sophpisticated very well.

But she loved the, to quote a previous poster, bad ### arrangements of the stuff she heard last night.

When I started corps in 1970 there were lots of peripheral fans who had no direct involvement. They just went to shows and got entertained. Today they get bored real quick and I can't get them to reconsider another shot at the experience.

It took talent to play Legend of the One Eyed Sailor or any other tune you want to pick from back in the day, and I can count the music majors I marched with on one hand - but it took a lot more talent to make an arrangement that scored well and entertained the schlubs who don't know a blown attack from an off-key note. Us schmucks put out a quality product with quality arrangements.

Today, we have better quality musicianship but much poorer arrangements that do not please the majority of people.

Start putting out a quality, entertaining product musically and things will turn around.

So, what does that mean? Abandon classical? Not on your life. Drum corps, specifically Vanguard and Regiment turned me onto classical music. Thanks to Devils and Del I like jazz. Sorry, no corps did a thing for imputing an appreciation of country music in this boy's life, but I hope you get my point.

Tone down the artistry? No. Does anyone think there is no artistry involved in replicating MacArthur Park as Madison did? If you think not, then there's isn't much to discuss.

Change the sheets? Qualified yes. Put more emphaisis on performance and less on design and that will add grease to the wheel. Take back some points to the music from drill too. Continue to be creative drill people, and show me how you can wow me within the context of a whole song. What you collectively do now, while on the technical side is creative, taken as a whole its disconnected and as choppy as the music is.

Dilute the competition. Are you crazy? We live in the most competitive society in the history of the world. As a marching member, I and my buddies lived for the scores each night. Why because they reflected what we did, not what someone did in a study room in February. If our score went up, it meant we played better, not wrote better. If you want to kill any hope of maintaining a steady recruiting base, take out the competitive aspect.

As to the avant guard stuff, small doses keep the variety quotient up, but two hours worth, no thanks. Even ten minutes is too much.

Oh, and people back in the day really love drum solos. Average people. Today every drum break sounds like the last and it's gone in the blink of an eye. When did drum solos become the ######## child of DRUM CORPS?

I'd like to add that I like a lot of the arrangments being done today. My tastes run to a more sophisticated atmosphere, but I don't have my head so far up my butt to think everyone will get off on it as much as I do.

Regards,

John

Fabulous post, John, There's just not a lot I can add to that, except that my hubby is much the same as your girlfriend. How I wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to 1980. I keep hoping that Madison will bring that sound back so that he can really hear what I have heard. This past season was a start.

--------------------

Sue Templeton Deschene

Oakland Crusaders colour guard, 1978 to 1980

"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

kmansdrummin

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QUOTE (byline @ Nov 8 2010, 04:00 PM)

Fabulous post, John, There's just not a lot I can add to that, except that my hubby is much the same as your girlfriend. How I wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to 1980. I keep hoping that Madison will bring that sound back so that he can really hear what I have heard. This past season was a start.

Since I didn't read the whole post. all I can say is ####!!!!! You nailed it!!!!!!

And I also showed my Girlfriend my performance in the Kingsmen Alumni Corps and she loved it. (Not just because I was in it.)

Edited November 9, 2010 by kmansdrummin

[Jerseyboy]

"2007 everybody was bad but BD"????

My bad.

I should have said there was no Fan Friendly program that would challenge BD 2007

4-7 were all at 94 and entertaining but not at championship level of BD.

[MikeD]

No, he had it right. There were 400+ corps when DCI started, and yet they adopted a strategy to serve 13 of them. Over the years, that 'number served' has been kept between 12 and 25, and the total number of corps has fallen from a near-historical peak to where it now asymptotically approaches the number of member corps which DCI truly serves.

DCI was not formed for the 400+ corps. If the hundreds of corps could not survive it wasn't DCI's fault. They had to adapt to keep ANY junior activity alive for those able to survive. I saw many corps fade away and die through the 70's, not due to anything DCI did or did not do.

....and yet, we have 10% as many corps as we once did....and 1% as many corps as competing marching bands.

It's all one big activity. Competing MB by the thousands have replaced the hundreds of local corps competitions like the GSC. That's serving far more young people than drum corps ever did.

[MikeD]

Small corps weren't participating in DCI funds distribution or service during the 70s either, when there were still more of them out there. What killed small drum corps was a combination of mismanagement, changing demographics with the aging out of the Boomers, a massive economic downturn in the mid-70s, declining membership and enthusiasm in veterans organizations, and - most importantly - the rise of competitive marching band as a free/cheap alternative to local drum corps.

[IntheMood]

Oh how did drum corps survive back when most corps were regional, and didn't have to look to DCI for sustenance? How EVER could grownups have volunteered time and effort and rounded up 50 or 60 kids to perform in a drum corps that was focused on weekend performances and part-time rehearsals when DCI wasn't there to make sure they were being taken care of?...

Corps that have no reason for touring nationally would do well to provide the backbones of stronger regional associations rather than tagging along and being programmed as filler in local shows. Does that sound heartless? Tough. This is still a business, and corps without the resources to mount first class campaigns to compete should consider whether their members and funders would be better served by being strong regional corps rather than also-rans on the national tour.

And IF DCI could establish a strong regional program (operating separately from the national tour), with the current Open Class plus some of the smaller WC corps as the start-up players in the league, they create a framework in which new organizations could see a path to competitive success. Give start-up corps a set-up in which they know from the outset that they're not going to be competing for attention with the big boys, but really competing against other units within a 100-150 mile radius from home, with a competitive format that lends itself to smaller units, shorter shows, fewer restrictions on programming styles, and limited instrumentation in the pits, and maybe, just maybe, you can find a dozen new groups out there who are willing to give it a shot. But the current model, with NO focus on regionalism, is a miasma that doesn't lend itself to fostering new competitors.

Small corps weren't participating in DCI funds distribution or service during the 70s either, when there were still more of them out there. What killed small drum corps was a combination of mismanagement, changing demographics with the aging out of the Boomers, a massive economic downturn in the mid-70s, declining membership and enthusiasm in veterans organizations, and - most importantly - the rise of competitive marching band as a free/cheap alternative to local drum corps. Well, now we've had 30 years to digest those changes and come up with some alternatives that can foster growth again, but thinking that the national touring model offers any solution is just plain foolish. It doesn't.

Come up with a form of drum corps that rewards innovation and GE, and create a set of regional leagues, and maybe you can spur some enthusiasm to get into the game. But it's going to have to be different from WC corps in order to work, since by the time most kids hit 17, they know if they're in an 'also ran' competitor in a game, and few want to keep plugging away in a situation where they know they have limited chances of winning.

Back in the day the band program was free/cheap. However, as I prepare to help support another band booster program this weekend, I am once again reminded that the band programs in my area are no longer free or cheap. As a matter of fact most if not all band programs in my area no longer have any funding from their school district. The band programs in my area are no longer growing. In the state of Indiana 80% (+/- 5%) have less the 100 kids in the band program. If this trend keeps up, most schools band programs will be whittled down to less then 15 kids in the pep band. Some people on here claim that the band membership in their area is growing. that is good news, if it is true. In the state of Indiana band membership and band programs are in a decline. Do to the massive economic downturn today it was made clear in the most recent voting cycle that the local community at this point in time are no longer willing to support their local school district with tax hikes. It looks to me that most reasons people state for the decline of the small local Corps back in the day are now coming into play with the small local band programs of today.

Dean

[audiodb]

DCI was not formed for the 400+ corps.

Thanks for making my point for me.

If the hundreds of corps could not survive it wasn't DCI's fault. They had to adapt to keep ANY junior activity alive for those able to survive. I saw many corps fade away and die through the 70's, not due to anything DCI did or did not do.

Mike, you don't need to put your DCI-apologist rhetoric on an infinite loop. This isn't about "fault" or "blame". This is about "strategy"....specifically, how many corps should DCI serve?

As was pointed out in the post that started this....

Policy driven losses. Most losses are due to specific policies pursued by DCI. Over time DCI has made strategic decisions to pursue a model with less corps, and less shows. The smaller concentration of corps yielded a greater concentration of talent. However, in pursuing this model DCI lost the critical mass of corps members and corps supported shows. So now you have less shows, often attended by less people (for reasons discussed below) and the shows that exist are spread out over a larger geographic area in a time of economic recession.

....DCI picked numbers much smaller than the activity's overall population. You are free to believe that their choices (ranging from 12 to 25) were correct. We are free to believe that they were not.

We have one very important fact on our side, though....that DCI has always used more corps than it has served. Still today, DCI relies on additional non-member corps to fill lineups, run shows and contribute to the size, scope and market perception of DCI as something much larger than just a private club. Only with the participation of these other corps can DCI bill themselves as an agency of the whole junior corps activity....and bill their championships as "the world championships".

Now, if as you say, it was all DCI could do to provide for the survival of their member corps....what will happen when this house-of-cards no longer has any other corps to build upon?

It's all one big activity.

No, they are not. (Though if you had your way, they would be.)

Competing MB by the thousands have replaced the hundreds of local corps competitions like the GSC. That's serving far more young people than drum corps ever did.

But how much has that helped drum corps? Or has it?

1. If marching bands have "replaced" drum corps, as you say, perhaps that's not a good thing. If too many drum corps are "replaced", there won't be enough left to maintain that "critical mass" that makes the drum corps activity viable.

2. I also question the philosophy that "aligning" drum corps more with marching band will cure all ills, when all the "aligning" we've already done leaves DCI with no more than 2% return on investment (measured in number of kids marching drum corps vs. competitive marching band). Drum corps participation should not be at an all-time low when marching band participation is at an all-time high. Growing the drum corps activity means either that percentage has to increase, or we have to look elsewhere for additional marchers.

Edited November 10, 2010 by audiodb