DCW article regarding touring . . .

[HockeyDad]

So, there you have it. It's interesting that there have been multiple, diverse posts on this thread, some very eloquent, some less eloquent, but nonetheless making the same basic points:

1. Hop, stop playing dumb, that you don't know why this is happening, that you don't have some underlying agenda.

2. Want more "outsider" interest? Then stop the appealing to the effete snobs, and get back to the basics, whether that be any or all of the following: music with melody; music that appeals to the "gut"; less emphasis on visual, more on music and execution; don't add woodwinds; repeal amps; repeal electronics.

Well, at least that's what I've read into your posts.

[WOOHOO]

So, there you have it. It's interesting that there have been multiple, diverse posts on this thread, some very eloquent, some less eloquent, but nonetheless making the same basic points:

1. Hop, stop playing dumb, that you don't know why this is happening, that you don't have some underlying agenda.

2. Want more "outsider" interest? Then stop the appealing to the effete snobs, and get back to the basics, whether that be any or all of the following: music with melody; music that appeals to the "gut"; less emphasis on visual, more on music and execution; don't add woodwinds; repeal amps; repeal electronics.

Well, at least that's what I've read into your posts.

I think we all know that outsiders, like orchestral music, don't really care about the difference between City of Glass and Malaguena. It really is all the same to them. It's all music that puts them to sleep. We, as drum corps fans, really do seem to have a problem separating our own musical preferences from majority approval, which is non existent.

[N.E. Brigand]

If Dave Gibbs wants to be relevant, he should turn his attention to the hundreds of thousands of kids across the country who really need him, the kids he and others have abandoned for the sake of personal glory.

And symphony orchestras should become soup kitchens, and art museums should become homeless shelters.

And all the people who adored Madison this year for their more traditional approach to drum corps -- they weren't talking about their style but about their work helping disadvantaged youth?

[ShortAndFast]

I think we all know that outsiders, like orchestral music, don't really care about the difference between City of Glass and Malaguena. It really is all the same to them. It's all music that puts them to sleep. We, as drum corps fans, really do seem to have a problem separating our own musical preferences from majority approval, which is non existent.

I know plenty of people who like symphonic music, or opera or choral music or musical theater or jazz, but are not drum corps fans. Could they be? They are all people who spend $$ because they like those styles of music. Across the country, there are many more of these people spending many more $$ than the meager 225K who buy tickets to DCI shows each year.

You seem to divide the world into current drum corps fans (0.1% of the population) and "majority approval" (99.9%) who could never like it. That doesn't reflect reality IMO - there's 5% or so of the population who likes similar musical activities and would certainly get difference between Malaguena and City of Glass. DCI with the right marketing could certainly appeal to some of them.

[WOOHOO]

I know plenty of people who like symphonic music, or opera or choral music or musical theater or jazz, but are not drum corps fans. Could they be? They are all people who spend $$ because they like those styles of music. Across the country, there are many more of these people spending many more $$ than the meager 225K who buy tickets to DCI shows each year.

You seem to divide the world into current drum corps fans (0.1% of the population) and "majority approval" (99.9%) who could never like it. That doesn't reflect reality IMO - there's 5% or so of the population who likes similar musical activities and would certainly get difference between Malaguena and City of Glass. DCI with the right marketing could certainly appeal to some of them.

The point is that 5% is not enough, obviously. Corps are losing money like crazy, and we worry about 5% of the population. It has to be more, fans will leave with the changes that might have to happen. It's business at this point. For DCI to succeed, they will have to do things to get in people who don't care about the things that drum corps fans care about.

[supersop]

The point is that 5% is not enough, obviously. Corps are losing money like crazy, and we worry about 5% of the population. It has to be more, fans will leave with the changes that might have to happen. It's business at this point. For DCI to succeed, they will have to do things to get in people who don't care about the things that drum corps fans care about.

I'm pretty sure the poster said 0.1% now .. with potential for 5% (if they quit messing with the idiom and market properly).

Regardless of whether those figures are right or not .... you totally missed the posters point.

Btw, 5% of America is 15.5 million potential fans. Yeah I think that would make a dent in the current crisis figures.

Let's see ... 15.5 million spending $200 on average every year. That's how much money in tickets, souvies, dvd's/cd's/fan network/apd's/vod's/whatever?

Answer: $3.1 BILLION

Now let's be realistic .... 3.1 billion bucks might be 35% of all revenue in the live music market (not including rock/pop/country stars and performing artists) I'm just talking the "general" performing arts in this country. So let's make a goal of 1%. That's still $620 million in revenue. How many more shows could you put on the map? How many corps could you seed? wouldn't spending some money wisely in the marketing end of the budget make sense if you're going after a meager 1% of the entire population of the United States of America?

The problem was NEVER that people didn't care about drum corps. The problem is/was that people didn't KNOW about drum corps. The larger masses who DID know about it and did support it have passed away or become jaded toward what the activity has become and is becoming. SO let's get back to talking business 101 ........ SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. I never read in that manual anywhere that said, "Sell your soul and constantly change who you are and what you represent in order to rebrand yourselves to people who already support you". This line of thinking only results in loss of return business. In Business 101 this is also known as EPIC FAIL!

Try again :) Thanks for playing.

[WOOHOO]

I'm pretty sure the poster said 0.1% now .. with potential for 5% (if they quit messing with the idiom and market properly).

Regardless of whether those figures are right or not .... you totally missed the posters point.

Btw, 5% of America is 15.5 million potential fans. Yeah I think that would make a dent in the current crisis figures.

Let's see ... 15.5 million spending $200 on average every year. That's how much money in tickets, souvies, dvd's/cd's/fan network/apd's/vod's/whatever?

Answer: $3.1 BILLION

Now let's be realistic .... 3.1 billion bucks might be 35% of all revenue in the live music market (not including rock/pop/country stars and performing artists) I'm just talking the "general" performing arts in this country. So let's make a goal of 1%. That's still $620 million in revenue. How many more shows could you put on the map? How many corps could you seed? wouldn't spending some money wisely in the marketing end of the budget make sense if you're going after a meager 1% of the entire population of the United States of America?

The problem was NEVER that people didn't care about drum corps. The problem is/was that people didn't KNOW about drum corps. The larger masses who DID know about it and did support it have passed away or become jaded toward what the activity has become and is becoming. SO let's get back to talking business 101 ........ SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. I never read in that manual anywhere that said, "Sell your soul and constantly change who you are and what you represent in order to rebrand yourselves to people who already support you". This line of thinking only results in loss of return business. In Business 101 this is also known as EPIC FAIL!

Try again :) Thanks for playing.

The problem is that this is all hypothetical and misdirected thinking. We have always had this market available, but we have been more concerned with keeping drum corps exactly the way we want it instead of reaching out to the community. Sure, 15.5 million is a lot, but what proposals has anyone said on here to reach that number that involves making any changes to the way that drum corps is presented? Let's stop worrying about electronics and woodwinds and address issues that a non musician could possibly care about.

Edited September 3, 2010 by WOOHOO

[ShortAndFast]

The point is that 5% is not enough, obviously. Corps are losing money like crazy, and we worry about 5% of the population. It has to be more, fans will leave with the changes that might have to happen. It's business at this point. For DCI to succeed, they will have to do things to get in people who don't care about the things that drum corps fans care about.

5% of the population is 12 million people, something like 50x the audience of DCI today. If DCI could appeal to a niche that size, it's set for a century.

There's nothing wrong with being in a niche market. Plenty of activities do just fine appealing to limited numbers of people - it's way easier today than it was 10 or 20 years ago, thanks to the internet and social media. DCI's problems come from the fact that its costs are too large for its current audience. It can solve that by cutting its costs, growing its audience, or both.

[audiodb]

“And that’s when you have to acknowledge the model’s broken,” he said. “You don’t even want to pay $25 for a local show. The corps are losing money to be at that show. We’re being paid less than it costs for us to be on the road. So if the sponsors don’t want to pay any more for us and tickets don’t want to pay anymore for us and we’re not getting paid enough, it’s a problem.”

Was Hopkins just born yesterday?

Seriously, this has never been a profit-making enterprise. Transporting dozens of musicians and their instruments all over to compete against other such groups has always cost more than it generates in revenue. And just now, in 2010, that is suddenly a problem???

Worse yet, this news flash comes from the person whose solution to everything is to become more like marching bands. But they have the exact same issue.

[WOOHOO]

Was Hopkins just born yesterday?

Seriously, this has never been a profit-making enterprise. Transporting dozens of musicians and their instruments all over to compete against other such groups has always cost more than it generates in revenue. And just now, in 2010, that is suddenly a problem???

Worse yet, this news flash comes from the person whose solution to everything is to become more like marching bands. But they have the exact same issue.

I'm sure if you were running a corps as long as he has, you would think differently. It's hard to lose money for over 20 years and not get sick of the same thing over and over again.