DCW article regarding touring . . .

[bawker]

http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?id=833

The majority of this article covers stuff that's better left for the G7/WSoDC forum (and I created a thread over there about some of the other things mentioned), but there was one stand-out thing that George Hopkins said that bears discussion here in the main forum:

“Can we figure out how to become what Dave Gibbs [executive director of the Blue Devils] would call ‘relevant?’ Can we figure out how to be relevant again to a large enough community that they’ll be willing to support us?” he said. “Is it enough to go out there and do the shows that we do now or do we have to have a corps be more interesting? Do we have to have something in the pre-show? Do we have to have a post-show or special encores that are fun?

“And do we have to mandate that the corps are entertaining -- I mean, really entertaining, like audience-wise?” he continued. “Do we have to stop with the artistry and force-feed the fact that those corps that get a standing ovation are going to win this thing -- if that’s what it’s going to take -- instead of perhaps those corps that take an artistic route, that we’re not maintaining an audience because people aren’t that interested in the classical, creative, avant-garde approach.

“I’ve been a part of all of that and I’ve been a part of it for a long time. The question for me, at least, is ‘Are we able to do that?’ ”

Hopkins isn’t sure that’s happening right now, enough for people to part with $25 or $30.

“And that’s when you have to acknowledge the model’s broken,” he said. “You don’t even want to pay $25 for a local show. The corps are losing money to be at that show. We’re being paid less than it costs for us to be on the road. So if the sponsors don’t want to pay any more for us and tickets don’t want to pay anymore for us and we’re not getting paid enough, it’s a problem.”

There's a lot to consider there. Do we include "entertainment" as some sort of mandate and have the sheets read more DCA-like in the future? What can the performances do to be more "relevant" to the average audience member?

I think Hop is right on here . . . in the regard that we've experimented a lot these past ten years in the "what" of drum corps (instrumentation, electronics) . . .maybe now it's time to tinker with the "how" regarding a judging and scoring overhaul.

What do you think?

(I know this article covers more than the above . . .but I thought this was important enough that it required a separate thread. Let's try to focus on whats quoted above here, rather than the touring discussion, which has a separate thread).

[soccerguy315]

honestly, I wouldn't mind something like an instant encore of 1 or 2 songs... let the corps arc it up after their show and play for 5 minutes. Maybe even while the next corps is coming on?

But honestly, these guys have been driving DCI for a long time, and for them to say the model needs significant changes, is the same as saying "we failed at our job" and usually when organizations get put into big holes by their leadership, they look for different leaders to pull them out, not the same ones that put them there in the first place.

[MikeN]

If you're not going to pay $25/$35 per ticket right now to see a show, will an extra encore or preshow really change your mind? I think more significant overhaul is needed to the on-field product.

Mike

[N.E. Brigand]

“And that’s when you have to acknowledge the model’s broken,” he said. “You don’t even want to pay $25 for a local show. The corps are losing money to be at that show. We’re being paid less than it costs for us to be on the road. So if the sponsors don’t want to pay any more for us and tickets don’t want to pay anymore for us and we’re not getting paid enough, it’s a problem.”

Welcome to the world of not-for-profit entertainment? Non-profit theaters typically get only about half their income from ticket sales and balance their budges via donations.

[Piper]

Maybe Hoppy should question his OWN relevancy. He's not exactly Mr. Popular.

[Plan9]

http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/articles.cfm?id=833

The majority of this article covers stuff that's better left for the G7/WSoDC forum (and I created a thread over there about some of the other things mentioned), but there was one stand-out thing that George Hopkins said that bears discussion here in the main forum:

There's a lot to consider there. Do we include "entertainment" as some sort of mandate and have the sheets read more DCA-like in the future? What can the performances do to be more "relevant" to the average audience member?

I think Hop is right on here . . . in the regard that we've experimented a lot these past ten years in the "what" of drum corps (instrumentation, electronics) . . .maybe now it's time to tinker with the "how" regarding a judging and scoring overhaul.

What do you think?

(I know this article covers more than the above, but that stuff is more G7/WSoDC related . . .but I thought this was important enough that it required a separate thread. Let's try to focus on whats quoted above here, rather than the touring discussion, which has a separate thread).

With regards to the "how", I think overhauling the judging and scoring gets us nowhere. Who wins isn't going to effect the gate. What the shows look like is what's going to draw. This year you had largely 22 corps with traditional shows and one you would classify as "artistry"..how does that figure in to Hop's metrics? It's not as if the designers are leaping on to the artistry bandwagon. So it's really about the whole package presentation, audience interface with the corps through different intiatives, pre/post show nuances and other G7 proposal ideas.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Plan9

[MikeN]

With regards to the "how", I think overhauling the judging and scoring gets us nowhere. Who wins isn't going to effect the gate. What the shows look like is what's going to draw. This year you had largely 22 corps with traditional shows and one you would classify as "artistry"..how does that figure in to Hop's metrics? It's not as if the designers are leaping on to the artistry bandwagen. So it's really about the whole package presentation, audience interface with the corps through different intiatives, pre/post show nuances and other G7 proposal ideas.

You actually helped clarify my thoughts on this. Seriously - thanks!

I think the problem right now is DCI is neither one nor the other. It's not professional marching band (see Greg Orwoll's comments in the other thread) as it's currently excluding half of the musicians, and it's not mainstream-type entertainment for wider audiences (seriously, take a step back and look at the shows from a non-band-kid point of view - they're just not). Either way, the audience is being restricted.

I think Greg was positing that DCI may want to embrace scholastic band whole hog, where Hop would like to see us drift the other way. But what it's looking more and more is that the current state may not be feasible.

Mike

[Bruckner8]

Take the judges out of it completely, and move it to 100% audience appreciation. Hand out scannable cards to every paid patron,which will be a finite set (and not reproducible).Allow the audience to set the order. You'll need 300 workers to collect the ballots in a timely fashion. They will dump their ballots into a special bin that organizes and counts. This might take 30 minutes.

It's perfectly fine for patrons to show up at 6PM, turn in their ballot before they even hear anyone, as long as they paid for a seat...after all, we're admitting that it's just a popularity contest anyway, right?

Others have mentioned the use of Cell Phones. That's not fair, since not everyone has a textable phone service/ I'm not sure about the repeatable use (ballot stuffing),either...is it possible to vote more than once using a text-based ballot system?

[skywhopper]

With regards to the "how", I think overhauling the judging and scoring gets us nowhere. Who wins isn't going to effect the gate

I agree. And as for the point about how much money the corps get for doing shows, have ticket revenues ever fully paid for drum corps?

It sounds to me like Hopkins is the one who's tired of drum corps. So please, hand over The Cadets to someone new.

[Tom Brace]

See...I don't see what Mr. Hopkins is saying is about traditional shows or artistic shows or whatever...it's about visceral shows....it's about the reaction to this year's Madison's offering compared to EVERYONE else.

It's the continued reaction to a show...now two years old...that Phantom Regiment produced.

It's about that. It's about having drum corps where people are telling other people...man you gotta see this...and see it live.

Butts in seats...it's what it's always been about.

And I will say this...in all of WC currently...there might be 10 - 15 corps who could pull this off currently. The rest...I don't yet see it.