Drum corps background checks

[HockeyDad]

convicted, or merely rumored? That gets into a whole different issue... what if someone was rumored or suspected, but never tried/convicted We have this thing called due process.....innocent until PROVEN guilty....

Just playing Dev's Advo, that's all.

I don't follow your logic. If you set up a system within your organization where you eliminate the possibility of one-on-one adult/minor interaction....... then you got it taken care of. I think you said...background checks only tell you about the past, what about the here and now? That's where you must set up a system where the here-and-now cannot happen. Organizations that don't do that are playing with fire.

[see me]

wht about when a corps, organizations, does take action against those that have violated the policies and procedures set forth by such organization, and get BASHED all over the place for doing so? for firing and not rehiring those staff members? I keep hearing "it's drum corps, it happens all the time"..........what is THAT supposed to mean?

[Stu]

We also have this thing called " better be safe than sorry.".. and " protect your child at ALL costs ".

So if I 'm a parent of a potential marcher and I hear rumors that an instructor in that Corps has involved themselves in really bad behaviours ( of any kind ), then my child is not marching in that Corps as long as I can help it. Maybe the rumors are false. I don't care. I don't take that chance. Life's not fair sometimes. If that instructor feels that someone has put out malicious rumors that are untrue about him or her, then that instructor has legal remedies they need to pursue to rectify that situation. In the meantime, it's a no brainer. The marcher doesn't march there if the parent has half a brain and possesses any parental wisdom and responsibility at all.

I realize that you want and need to look out for your children, but in essence you are stating that mere 'accusation' is enough reason for you to burn an individual and/or an organization because that person has a 'remote possibility' of the accusation being true; and in your eyes is cause for automatic guilt and and therefore the ruining of a career of an 'Innocent' individual on false pretense is far better to you than realizing that there is just a very small percentage of bad apples that are actually out there. This 'burn the warlock before any proof attitude' has become so prevalent in our society that many excellent innocent teachers and coaches have had their lives ruined by students realizing that they can tarnish a teacher or coach that they do not like by just claiming such a false accusation. I know of two such teachers; they were innocent but it did not matter! The media crucified them, the public crucified them, all based on accusation. Even after the 'truth' came out by the teenagers finally coming clean and admitting that they had lied in both cases, neither accused person was able to ever find work again in their field of instructional expertise because the public for hundreds of miles around still looked upon them as you seem to also do; they were accused, accusation equals guilt, and that is ALL that matters. I pray that someone never falsely accuse you of something like this, or you will receive the unsubstantiated guilt ridden belief that you seem to want to place upon others.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Stu

[Stu]

That's where you must set up a system where the here-and-now cannot happen.

A system can be set up to check criminal backgrounds, train individuals, have them sign papers that they will honor the Code of Ethics; however, there is 'no way you can set up a system where the here-and-now cannot happen'. Why? Because there is no way we can look into the future and see that a person with an impeccable background, a person who goes through training, a person who signs the Code of Ethics, a person who has gained the trust of everyone he/she has came in contact with will not do something horrible tomorrow or even one minute from now. Moreover, there is also no way to set up indicators of such a person. So, a corps can protect themselves with the background checks, provide training, have all sign Code of Conduct Parers, and secure Liability Insurance in case something awful happens. That is the most any organization can do other than not forming a corps at all.

[HockeyDad]

A system can be set up to check criminal backgrounds, train individuals, have them sign papers that they will honor the Code of Ethics; however, there is 'no way you can set up a system where the here-and-now cannot happen'. Why? Because there is no way we can look into the future and see that a person with an impeccable background, a person who goes through training, a person who signs the Code of Ethics, a person who has gained the trust of everyone he/she has came in contact with will not do something horrible tomorrow or even one minute from now. Moreover, there is also no way to set up indicators of such a person. So, a corps can protect themselves with the background checks, provide training, have all sign Code of Conduct Parers, and secure Liability Insurance in case something awful happens. That is the most any organization can do other than not forming a corps at all.

I disagree. If an organization has the will to do so, it can set up a system. As an example, you establish an no-exceptions policy that NO ADULT will be in contact with one minor without the presense of at least a second adult. And you educate everyone in your organization about this policy, especially the kids, so that they know that "something's wrong" if they're approached while alone by one adult that's not their parent. And the adults police each other - setting up teams, etc.

I will not agree that "there's no way" inappropriate behavior and conduct can be prevented. And if an organization is not willing to make the effort to make this happen, then that tells you something right there.

[year1buick]

Where do you draw the line? We have ALL done various things we shouldn't have at one point or another....which things are ok to let slide and which are not? and do you take into consideration the name? I know of one former VERY WELL KNOWN director who was seen by a friend of mine to have a bass drummer up against a wall doing things that a director shouldn't be doing with his underage marching members..... but back then, I guess if you wanted to be in HIS corps, you did what HE wanted.

Dodgeball?

[Piper]

Anytime we had a problem with someone's behaviour we took matters into our own hands if you know what I mean.

[fleurghost]

So what do we do able an 18 year old member and a 15 year old member?

DCP has really developed a long list of "foremost authorities" on all situations and subjects. Let us not remember that there isn't exactly a line of people waiting to be poor and take the time to run a corps. I don't think child predators should work with corps, but at the same time, those that hire people have the choice to do so. Convicted criminals work at McDonald's serving Happy Meals to Children, but do we scream that they also should not work?

Really sit back and think about it. There is always two sides to a story. How many times have we each heard that someone was "convicted" of a sex crime against a Minor, because an 18 year old was dating a 16 year old, and years later they even got married. But in the end they are guilty of crimes against a minor. This brings back the good old saying that if YOU were not DIRECTLY involved, then you don't know the circumstances. Information literacy also tells you that INTERNET searches cannot be trusted, because nearly 98% of the time what is "reported" on the net is strictly ONE SIDED.

I say mind your own, and allow those that run organizations, and usually also fund them, make the decisions.

These topics and situations have gotten way out of line, and everyone steps in to cast a stone. Then we say that we've never done anything wrong... Well thats a LIE as we all have. Remember no one is perfect. Have you ever told someone one things just to get out of a situation? Or better yet attended an event and gotten in free when really you should have paid.. PRESTO thats theft, but its okay because you worked with the group early that season?

This is all just tooo much anymore.

If you want to complain, then ANYONE 18 and above needs to be checked. Members, Volunteers, Instructors, Judges, Bus Drivers, Instrument repair people (who fix horns and such on the road), other "Marketplace" personnel, Stadium workers who also have contact with the kids, fans who come in to see the kids... EVERYONE!

Won't happen, so let the individual groups decide.... And support their decisions.

[fleurghost]

NOT TRUE Mr. Blackburn. You know this to be fake, I think I can point out a few people that you've had that are no longer there.... So why come on here and make that statement? You know it to be NOT TRUE!

Yes, we perform background checks on our staff here at Teal!

[BRASSO]

I realize that you want and need to look out for your children, but in essence you are stating that mere 'accusation' is enough reason for you to burn an individual and/or an organization because that person has a 'remote possibility' of the accusation being true; and in your eyes is cause for automatic guilt and and therefore the ruining of a career of an 'Innocent' individual on false pretense is far better to you than realizing that there is just a very small percentage of bad apples that are actually out there. This 'burn the warlock before any proof attitude' has become so prevalent in our society that many excellent innocent teachers and coaches have had their lives ruined by students realizing that they can tarnish a teacher or coach that they do not like by just claiming such a false accusation. I know of two such teachers; they were innocent but it did not matter! The media crucified them, the public crucified them, all based on accusation. Even after the 'truth' came out by the teenagers finally coming clean and admitting that they had lied in both cases, neither accused person was able to ever find work again in their field of instructional expertise because the public for hundreds of miles around still looked upon them as you seem to also do; they were accused, accusation equals guilt, and that is ALL that matters. I pray that someone never falsely accuse you of something like this, or you will receive the unsubstantiated guilt ridden belief that you seem to want to place upon others.

Whoa... simmer down, take a deep breath, big fella. I only said that I would not allow my child to join a Corps that had an instructor where there were rumors of very bad behaviours with that instructor. I never called out to " burn the warlock " , (presumably at the stake ), nor called out for " ruining his career ", nor call for the ruination of that Corps ,and blah blah blah, blah. Maybe you missed the portion where I said that the accuser should seek legal remedies if the accused believes they were unfairly maligned wth smears ( sue ). I have sympathy for such situations. But frankly, my primary obligation in such situations is to my child, and as such, it would be a failure of my duties to my child to put my child in ANY potential danger. I 'm not really interested in whether or not the rumors are true or not. As a parent, I 'm not afforded that luxury. And I DON'T take that chance, with the possibility that the rumors might be bogus. If there is a whiff of potential bad behaviours that has gone public on a Corps instructor, I don't take that chance with my child. Period. End of Story.

Edited October 2, 2010 by BRASSO