It's changed

[Triple Forte]

There is no doubt in my mind that the talent level is much higher now than in years past. I totally agree with the people that say the shows are designed for the sheets rather than the audience. Easy to solve. Change the sheets.

I agree........change the sheets. And hopefully....that is what corps staffs/directors will focus on in this off season.......

And here's the thing folks.....the corps themselves decide what the judging criteria (sheets) should include and not include. The judges don't control it......

[Hrothgar15]

Works both ways.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Hrothgar15

[Jeff Ream]

Dean was a baller, no doubt. Not saying he wasn't. There will always be exceptions.

And yes, I have stood in front of a hornline lately. That's one of the reasons I don't really care about corps using electronics, because the parking lot show is the best thing about DCI, and they don't plug in there.

So if the talent level isn't going down, then why are the horn books easier? It's all because of how a show is judged? Corps are capable of playing a more demanding book, but chose not too, because they won't score any higher? I don't buy it.

the books are easier because of the tempos and visual demands. the visual now drives how the music is designed.

oh and corps do plug in in the lot.

[Hrothgar15]

Hmm, I wouldn't say horn books are easier now. I think what has been introduced more is exposure. most corps can play loud whole notes over and over again, but it takes a special group of people to play a syncopated 16th note passage, and isolated stabs when players are 50 yards apart. Just my read on it. And I happen to think that playing with control and exposure is much harder than playing a loud, less exposed book. And a big part of it is the sheets. When the sheets reward musicality, and control and exposure, that's how people will write their shows.

Brass books are actually much less exposed now in all but the top few corps.

[Jeff Ream]

I agree........change the sheets. And hopefully....that is what corps staffs/directors will focus on in this off season.......

And here's the thing folks.....the corps themselves decide what the judging criteria (sheets) should include and not include. The judges don't control it......

very anxious to hear Michael Cesario's take on this.

[fsubone]

Brass books are actually much less exposed now in all but the top few corps.

Again, just my read on it, but I really do feel exposure has become much more prevalent in modern shows. Part of it is the arranging style, where horn stabs have come into vogue, which leads to great exposure in brass lines. And the other part of it is partially the new choices of music by many corps. Minimalist music leads to exposure, as it becomes smaller and more complex parts which are very exposed. This is all just my take on it, but I've listened to shows all the way through the DCI era, and I really feel like brass books keep getting harder and harder, especially when you consider the simultaneous demands placed on performers in the visual sector with all of the body movement stuff.

[supersop]

Dean was a baller, no doubt. Not saying he wasn't. There will always be exceptions.

And yes, I have stood in front of a hornline lately. That's one of the reasons I don't really care about corps using electronics, because the parking lot show is the best thing about DCI, and they don't plug in there.

So if the talent level isn't going down, then why are the horn books easier? It's all because of how a show is judged? Corps are capable of playing a more demanding book, but chose not too, because they won't score any higher? I don't buy it.

Honestly sir ......... you should take stock in it. Every answer to every question in this post is YES. Corps are definitely capable of playing more demanding books ...... if the emphasis was there in the judging community. If there were less emphasis on the crazy meters, jazz running, body movement and ad hoc movements rather than marching ... there would be more time in the day to focus on the music and harder parts would be achievable without the visual demand being so high. The talent level is there for sure.

I won a ring, and the kids in all the top 11 corps play better than my hornline ever did ..... but I guarantee my brass book at Northern Aurora, Scouts and Cadets was 10x harder than anything being played now. Slaughter in 89 was 10x harder than Slaughter in 2010. That's no slam ... it's just the way it is and Madison did not disappoint anyone with their offering in any way, shape or form. They had the right recipe to make all the fans happy and hopeful that this would signal a return to fan friendly, in your face shows just like in the past.

Yes, they choose not to write a harder book because they can't clean it with the visual demand, and they can now rely on A&E/Pit to carry most of the load on the notes end of things. The pit has become a crutch for the brass section and there's no way around that.

Yes, they won't score any higher ...... because between all captions the weight of visual carries 60% of the score due to caption bleed and not 50% of the score as posted on the sheets. DCI has taken a turn in the wrong direction and many saw it coming for a while now. But it is what it is ..... the only way back to balance and keeping the paying customers happy is to see that pendulum shift back toward more demanding brass books with less demanding visual elements ...... and removing the crutch up front in some form or fashion.

I'll leave it at that.

[supersop]

Again, just my read on it, but I really do feel exposure has become much more prevalent in modern shows. Part of it is the arranging style, where horn stabs have come into vogue, which leads to great exposure in brass lines. And the other part of it is partially the new choices of music by many corps. Minimalist music leads to exposure, as it becomes smaller and more complex parts which are very exposed. This is all just my take on it, but I've listened to shows all the way through the DCI era, and I really feel like brass books keep getting harder and harder, especially when you consider the simultaneous demands placed on performers in the visual sector with all of the body movement stuff.

Compare 83 Suncoast's opener to anything in the 2000's. NOWHERE close to the same demand and exposure. I could pull out 1000 other examples. Yes, the arranging style has changed, by mixing in the pit where the hornline can't handle the meat. Features, field spreads and isolated attacks have lost effectiveness with time ....... because it's been overused as a tool in the formula to winning. Now everyone does it so it becomes and unexciting non factor to fans.

It seems as though everyone in this day and age compares the offerings of DCI to 93 Star. 93 Star was great but I'm sorry ........ it's not the pinnacle of what drum corps is, was or ever should be. It's great if one or two corps take this approach to arranging and show design ......... but now everyone does it. Some corps are better than others, some have better designs than others but they all have commonality in their approach to performance ....... and it's stale. There is always the rare bird ...... but it used to be the norm. That's why people are complaining.

[ajwdad]

This recreational whine will never end. Basically, the shows are not as crowd pleasing, the designers design shows to try to win, etc... If we were talking about any sport, there would be no problem. But designing a show to win is EVIL on this board and in this activity. Visual matters a lot due to the sheets, just like most winning football teams pass and play defense. Bottom line, if you want to make a real difference, join a corp and start either teaching or designing. But, it is so much easier to post remarks on a board. I tend to agree with most of the comments here about changing the judging if you want to change the activity.

[Hrothgar15]

Part of it is the arranging style, where horn stabs have come into vogue, which leads to great exposure in brass lines.

I'd be happy if I never heard another horn stab in drum corps ever again.