It's changed

[fsubone]

This recreational whine will never end. Basically, the shows are not as crowd pleasing, the designers design shows to try to win, etc... If we were talking about any sport, there would be no problem. But designing a show to win is EVIL on this board and in this activity. Visual matters a lot due to the sheets, just like most winning football teams pass and play defense. Bottom line, if you want to make a real difference, join a corp and start either teaching or designing. But, it is so much easier to post remarks on a board. I tend to agree with most of the comments here about changing the judging if you want to change the activity.

You sir, have won. Everything you have put here is just so right. Thank you for it. Me, I'm going to go back to march again this season, so I think I'm doing my part. I'll go back to taking part of the activity I love, and performing the hell out of whatever show is put in front of me. It's just easier for people to Monday morning quarterback than get out there and throw a few passes themselves.

[fsubone]

I'd be happy if I never heard another horn stab in drum corps ever again.

If it's musically important, I'm fine with it. If it's just thrown in for effect, or to punctuate a drum feature, then I think it's pointless. Lots of classical music has stabs in it, so if it fits, I say go for it and play it.

[fsubone]

Compare 83 Suncoast's opener to anything in the 2000's. NOWHERE close to the same demand and exposure. I could pull out 1000 other examples. Yes, the arranging style has changed, by mixing in the pit where the hornline can't handle the meat. Features, field spreads and isolated attacks have lost effectiveness with time ....... because it's been overused as a tool in the formula to winning. Now everyone does it so it becomes and unexciting non factor to fans.

Well, that's one opinion and way to look at it. But I still find that stuff exciting. I mean, can anyone really watch the end of Crown's show last year, where they're spread from the endzone to the endzone and not think it's exciting?

And I'm sure there are examples of much higher demand in modern drum corps, but you have to look at it differently. Sure, today we're not playing everything with two valves, so it is easier to play stuff, but pretty sure we're balancing a whole lot more during shows than what was done in your era. And about demand and exposure, go watch SCV's show from this last year. Talk about demand and exposure. Listen to the second movement and the fourth movement. If that isn't demand and exposure, I'd really like to see your definition of it. And even back in the 80s, there are examples of corps using the pit to cover the parts that the hornline can't play, so don't try and call that some modern invention from the last decade. It's always happened.

[drumno5]

the caliber/proficiency of DCI's brass players has been steadily declining.

I think it's pretty safe to say that no one in BD's horn line this year can play any trumpet solo from 1986 BD better than/as good as Mike Collins.

And I'm positive none of them can play any of Scotty's solos from 1993 or 1995.

So if you have players that aren't capable of playing horn books from years past...

As much as I loved BD's 2010 production, I can't see that hornline playing 1993's horn book. And although the trumpet soloist from this year really improved from the start of the season, he couldn't play some of the solos from years past.

Respect to all of those great soloists whom you have cited in your rose-colored reminiscence of the glory years, and wonderful that you know them all well enough to drop their names out here on the DCP board. But these are subjective remarks. To state (with such authoritative certainty, no less) that no one from 2010 is as good as [name favorite soloist or horn line from favorite corps from back in the day] is an unsupportable generalization.

Peace,

Fred O.

[bluecoats88]

oops, yeah 35,000 paid.

the other problem with your comment Jeff is that the OP never said 35,000 paid - what he said was performing in front of 35,000 spectators. Which I believe was a possibility back in the mid 80s at camp randall due to all the corps members and such, there probably was 35,000 spectators in the stands for finals.

[mikecollins86]

guess we should go back to the old way where the soloist is parked on the front sideline for an entire song where the solo happens, then have them stand there till the next solo, that sound good?

D##n, I was cheated!!! (came out for my solo while marching previous set, went back in set after......DEFINITELY marched show before last one....)

I think there are great players now. What has changed is the opportunity to play the types of solos Scotty, Roger DeLoza, etc. and myself played. That is probably due to show design. The only other thing people might be confusing is the G vs Bb thing. Having played professionally on both, I CAN tell you I could belt out about 2x the power/"presence" on a G horn vs. the Bb horns. Perhaps this is something people are hearing in solos vs. the 'old days' that you don't necessarily pick up when comparing entire lines? (although I sure do.....)

What is different now, imho, is that the AVERAGE playing ability has increased quite a bit. When I taught VK in the late 80s, there were some kids that had never even played a brass instrument. I don't believe (although I could be wrong) that any top 12 corps is having to do that nowadays.

Mike Collins

BD 84,86

[fsubone]

D##n, I was cheated!!! (came out for my solo while marching previous set, went back in set after......DEFINITELY marched show before last one....)

Mike Collins

BD 84,86

Sorry Mike, wasn't you. But there was a lot of that back in the 70s and 80s, when a soloist would drop out of the drill for awhile before and after their solo, guess to make it easier for them.

[bdon15]

I can't help but feel like drum corps as I once remembered and loved is gone. I'm not just talking about the recent rules changes either. In the past two seasons we've seen attendance come down drastically finals week, top shows designed only for effect, synths doubling the bass note of every sustain, and now we're about to see a divide in the drum corps community with this World Series of Drum Corps.

When I performed in 2009 and 2010, it didn't look feel or sound anything like I had imagined when I had watched any other finals performance in drum corps history. I want to perform outdoors to a packed Camp Randall filled with 35,000 spectators. I want to play a brass acapella chord without a synth covering up the contra sound. I want to go to a finals and be able to enjoy the championship show because it's designed to be entertaining, not effective. I just don't think this is ever going to be a reality again, which is disheartening because I love the activity so much. I would give an arm and a leg to march even 6 or 7 years ago. I suppose I'll just hope that things will change for the better.

Enjoy your moment, because that's all you get.

Or... to quote Nate Fisher

"You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone"

[Dmlkmen]

And as far as the attendance level dropping, I have your answer. Rose Bowl.

Didn't realize that it was that size at 07 Finals. But I was looking for that total recently. Thanks for the link. I also liked the comment about people are convservative about what they are most familiar with. Good point.

I get what the OP said about those feelings. If that means a large supporting crowd to you, even though you dont feel the show is like a Madison 95 or Phantom 08, and you miss those years, thats OK. Personally trying to support that by being in the stands at 5pm, or the start of the show, to cheer you on......that is, if I am not already marching in a corps, cause then I am on first or second due to DCI All Age out here in CA....But that would be one of the few exceptions...rush hour traffic causing me to be a little late to a show, another.

I do know what you mean, but I am still cheering for you. Cause for you, its part of the reason you do it, and will most remember after its all done.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Dmlkmen

[INeverMarched]

I'm beginning to think I may have to recant some of my previous statements. I recently texted a person that was a part of BD's 2010 production and asked if this years hornline could play 1993's book and they replied "Yep".

So maybe this decline I suggested earlier doesn't exist. BUT, it still seems as if the recent solos are lacking. Maybe this becomes more of a question as to why more of the best players at this age group don't march drum corp? Is it because DCI does a terrible job of marketing it's product, as other topics have suggested? Is it because the best players can't march these current shows that are physically so demanding? Do corps just rely on their name alone for recruitment?