Rocketman Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 How do you measure staff "talent"? That appears to have been answered by wins! You win, you're talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contrajedi8 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Just like everything else in drum corp right now: 1st. BD Distant 2nd. Everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 1. Pioneer Everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 1- Blue Devils -until someone comes close 2-Crown -Beddis , Harloff , May might have peaked . but good last 3 years. 3-Cadets-great staff , percussion and programmer need work 4-Cavies - Gaines....... 5-Madison -Jimmer , Van Doran , 6-SCV -Rennick adds a lot 6- Bluecoats -please find a way to peak at finals. 7-Blue Stars-consistant 8-Phantom -could be lower , percussion and visual. 9- Blue Knights - Jimmer , Sully , Hardimon 10-Crossmen -Beddis , Naffier , Chez , Buckingham . ---------------- Boston . do not know-percussion , brass Glassmen -do not know -???/ Troopers -Do not know-????/ Spirit-do not know., new percussion Academy -Do not know ???/ Colts-Do not know, new programming, percussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepsiTwist Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Wow. you can definitely tell it's the off-season around here. ;) Really, this kind of discussion is nothing but opinion/teaching philosophy-based no matter how you look at it. The talent pool in DCI today is such a massive mixed fruit basket - not just apples and oranges - so you could easily say that those staffs are as talented and as successful as any other staff with any other corps. There are many things that the Cadets do that the Blue Devils don't, either by way of teaching philosophy or show design approach. And comparing Cavies to Bluecoats... Is there really that much of a "talent" difference between the two staffs? I'm not sure if it's even possible to break it down into something other than someone's opinion on that corps' staff's teaching philosophies. Then again, we're all here to discuss our opinions and talk about the corps we love... I'm just worried this could self destruct as a result of people arguing "no, my corps staff is better..." "no, mine is..." :) *sigh* As for the original post in ranking the staffs, I'd have to say that I believe that everyone involved with teaching or designing in DCI, and not just one particular corps' staff, deserves a special recognition for what they do for this activity. The amount of time they sacrifice during the off-season and the work that goes into organizing things year-round practically earns them all the highest honor, no matter what corps they represent. I have never been on any corps staff but I have volunteered when I can. It's amazing seeing and hearing what all of those people do behind the scenes the few times I've been around them. They barely get a break, and although this activity is all about the kids, I believe they make all these sacrifices for them and all that hard work ends up paying off no matter what the placement or result at the end of the year. It's just too difficult for me to make any sort of "ranking" without giving my opinions on that corps' staff's philosophies and what I like the best. If that were the case, Cadets and Cavies would be at the top, followed by SCV, Bluecoats and BD. But saying that, I know that would get many people to ask "why?" or "how could you rank BD that low?" Well... it's just my opinion. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmySysEva_01 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I think this is a great thread that hopefully makes people open their mind to reading bios of staff and maybe even going to rehearsals to seem them work. So often we judge a group by a performance and not by how they operate day-to-day. Also talent of staff doesn't mean the list created should look like the finals placement. For instance I know the "talent" level of Crown's Percussion Staff is very good. However, it seemed they suffered injuries and losing members which would affect any groups end result. *Not taking away from that specific group - still very much enjoyed them* I think it's fair to say that Madison has a very talented staff just as much as it is with Blue Devils or Cavaliers. Game on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 1- Blue Devils -until someone comes close2-Crown -Beddis , Harloff , May might have peaked . but good last 3 years. 3-Cadets-great staff , percussion and programmer need work 4-Cavies - Gaines....... 5-Madison -Jimmer , Van Doran , 6-SCV -Rennick adds a lot 6- Bluecoats -please find a way to peak at finals. 7-Blue Stars-consistant 8-Phantom -could be lower , percussion and visual. 9- Blue Knights - Jimmer , Sully , Hardimon 10-Crossmen -Beddis , Naffier , Chez , Buckingham . ---------------- Boston . do not know-percussion , brass Glassmen -do not know -???/ Troopers -Do not know-????/ Spirit-do not know., new percussion Academy -Do not know ???/ Colts-Do not know, new programming, percussion You really have to look deeper than the design team and caption heads to find the true talent of a corps staff. Take BK for instance. Everyone you listed is a hall of famer and have won multiple world championships .. yet the corps is still struggling competitively. Why? Is it the talent they attract or is it the tech staff that is lacking? Maybe it's the chemistry of the 3 you mentioned ... maybe they're just not clicking yet. I for one, truly believe that it is the tech staff ... the guys on the field doing the grunt work, that truly enhance the names in the forefront ... that truly make the individual members find that next level and achieve greatness beyond their wildest expectations. The success of Crown as of late was not just a Beddis, Harloff thang. You have to throw in Leon May, DVD, Klesch and a plethora of others. Just check out the talent they had backing them up: Design Team * Jim Coates (Program Coordinator) * Michael Klesch (Music Director / Arranger) * Keith Potter (Program Concept / Visual Coordinator) * Leon May (Visual Designer) * Lee Beddis (Arranger - Battery) * Andrew Markworth (Arranger - Front Ensemble) * Michael Townsend (Guard Designer) * Adam Sage (Guard Designer) * Dean Westman (Music Consultant) Brass Staff * Matt Harloff (Caption Supervisor) * Michael Klesch (Arranger) * Ray Linkous (Asst. Caption Supervisor) * Ben Harloff (Technique Specialist) * Corey Alvaro (Low Brass Tech) * Evan VanDoren (Mello Tech) * Chad Brinkman (Trumpet Tech) * Larry Shane (Trumpet Tech) * Marshal Woody (Trumpet Tech) * Joe Padawan (Brass Tech) * Ryan Summers (Tuba Tech) * Bob Chreste (Brass Tech) * Donnie VanDoren (Brass Consultant) Percussion Staff * Lee Beddis (Caption Supervisor / Arranger - Battery) * Andrew Markworth (Arranger - Front Ensemble) * Zach Schlicher (Asst. Caption Supervisor / Snare Tech) * Ian Hale (Front Ensemble Tech) * Steve Ballard (Front Ensemble Tech) * Paul Loos (Tenor Tech) * Mike Dow (Bass Tech) * Mike Bishop (Front Ensemble Tech) Visual Staff * Leon May (Designer) * Keith Potter (Coordinator) * Andy Ebert (Caption Supervisor) * Neil Adkison (Tech) * Ben Firkus (Tech) * Sean Moran (Tech) * Joe Eck (Tech) * Kelly Bishop (Tech) * Nick Smith (Tech) * Martin Montoya (Tech) * Chris Lamar (Tech) * Daphne Adkison (Tech) Guard Staff * Michael Townsend (Designer) * Adam Sage (Supervisor/Designer) * Jennifer Hinshaw (Choreographer) * Matthew Follo (Tech) * Adam Dalton (Tech) * Susan Hanggi (Tech) * Joey Powell (Tech) * Michael Floyd (Tech) * Jay Jernigan (Consultant) All I can say is ........ WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepsiTwist Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 okay... time out. Are we discussing "most talented" staff or "most experienced"? because I think there's a huge difference. as I said before about comparing corps, apples and oranges, you can't really compare talent. You CAN compare experience... and by who is listed on the staff for Crown, yes that staff has a plethora of experienced teachers and designers. But does that mean they are more "talented" than anyone else just by their name alone and what they have accomplished in the past with that corps and others. My question is, how exactly do you measure talent? Maybe I'm not getting it but I really don't understand what "hall-of-fame" staff members have to do with "talent" on a corps staff. Does that mean that because Donnie Van Doren is a hall-of-famer that no-one else can be as "talented" as him right now? (because we are talking about "right now" if we want to talk about talent... if you want to talk about "experience", which would mean more of what they did in the past with other groups and other shows, then that would be a whole other discussion.) Again, I could be way off in the way I'm interpreting this thread and these replies (and I'm sure some of you will be quick to reply and agree. ;) ) I could see a lot of accuracy in the majority of those rankings based on experience and past accomplishments alone. But past accomplishments and experience in this activity, though it IS very important and something to be recognized, doesn't seem to fit in with this discussion of "talent". Does Pete Weber have any less "talent" than Myron Rosander? Less experience, yes, but less "talent"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) You really have to look deeper than the design team and caption heads to find the true talent of a corps staff. Take BK for instance. Everyone you listed is a hall of famer and have won multiple world championships .. yet the corps is still struggling competitively. Why? Is it the talent they attract or is it the tech staff that is lacking? Maybe it's the chemistry of the 3 you mentioned ... maybe they're just not clicking yet. Blue Knights have made finals 7 years in a row..... Edited October 13, 2010 by FanofNight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Does that mean that because Donnie Van Doren is a hall-of-famer that no-one else can be as "talented" as him right now? Lots of HOF teaching DCI FTR. Van Doren corps 2011 ----- Madison Crown Blue Stars Crossmen thats alot of drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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