drumlaw80 Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Sam Wrote: "Changing rules and such to allow someone else to win would not be fair or ethical...to Bucs, their fans, staff, other corps, and to the activity in general." You're missing the point, my friend. First of all, there is a history of DCA bylaws and other rules imposed that only affect one or two corps, so that element of the ethical analysis is not relevant here. The question is -- at what point does the Buccaneers continued winning hurt the marketing and growth of DCA? It's not about the Buccaneers - it's about the business and marketing growth of DCA. Second, please understand, DCA is not a competitive activity right now in regards to the overal winner - it's not even close. It's turned into an exhibition. We're not talking about a corps just winning a few titles in a row. This is many years of ZERO losses to anyone at any time, and a outcome that is more inherently predetermined before the show starts than we have ever seen in ANY competitive activity. At least the Seahawks went into the Saints game with some kind of chance to win, even if just a last second hail mary. Here, there has been no chance for a different outcome. If you think there is, you're kidding yourself. Again, this has been years we're talking about, not shows. The fans travel to DCA and every show the Bucs attend for the last few years knowing that the winner will be the Buccaneers and the victory concert is going to sound a lot like the Vanguard. Every single year, same thing. Over and over and over, repeat for years. What would happen to the NFL if the Saints went 16-0 for six or seven years? Logically, wouldn't fans who love the competitive aspect of football look to another sport for their competitive fix? Guess what -- it's already happening. Entertainment-wise, DCA is brilliant and fantastic. Competively speaking, DCA has either become the most boring competition game on the block or the most exciting professional wresting approach to music we've ever seen. I will say this -- if Reading's streak continues for more years - it will either kill or stagnate DCA ticket sales. There is no way to market an activity as being competitive if it is not. Just so it bears repeating - I am not bashing or against the Buccaneers at all. Not even 1%. I marched there in 1983 and gave them a business plan in 2003. But folks, please let's all look away from the trophy table for a second and think about what is really best for all of the corps in DCA. This ain't it. Disclaimer - I don't have all the answers. But, maybe it's time to start asking the questions, for the sake of all of the DCA drum corps. Just my .07 - no offense to anyone. Edited January 19, 2011 by drumlaw80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 If you think who wins ranks above the economy and show design in order of importance, I have a stadium with a roof in Indy to sell you. Funny how DCA's attendance grew during the Brigs run and kep going during Bucs run til the economy tanked. And let's be honest, kinda like with Indy and DVI married til 2112, some people just got tired of going to Rochestet every year. I can name 20 people off the top of my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushdm86 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 So now instead of who is better, or who is deserving because they executed better, or who has the entire package and delivered, we should scrap that and allow (or a better word, give) the championship to another corps because the Bucs are causing financial distress on DCA. Please. I lived through, "I hope anybody but: The Buccaneers... The Brigadiers... The Bushwackers... The Caballeros... ...win DCA. Drum corps is competition. Usually, the best corps wins, which is the way it should be. So, are all the corps in DCA planning to win DCA? Are you marching to win or to entertain? Or, are you marching to push yourself in a new musical direction or perform music from your early drum corps years. It's all good. There is no wrong answer. But, if you march to win and you fall short, try harder and beat that corps in front of you rather than complain. It looks like a long winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) A three-tenths of a point swing at Finals in 2006....and we're not talking about six straight undefeated seasons. Maybe only four. Edited January 19, 2011 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The fans travel to DCA and every show the Bucs attend for the last few years knowing that the winner will be the Buccaneers Fans went to DCI finals in 95 knowing that BD would win also....oops, guess the Cavies stepped up their game and beat BD. Sure looked like 08 was all in BD's pocket, right? Or Garfield 83....right up until prelims. Or Hell....everyone counted us out in 84 until we started turning it on after Whitewater. It ain't over until it's OVER, Lee. If Cabs, Empire, Hurcs, etc want to beat Bucs....they'll have to BEAT Bucs. Not by some cheap rule that keeps a stellar corps from winning over it's competition, but by being better than then on show night. Don't punish Bucs for being dominating..or hobble them with these proposals. You're wrong to propose them in the first place. You don't maintain the health of any organization by punishing them for success. Or would you sling the same proposal at BD and BDB... who have one loss between them in the last 2 seasons -- seasons with more shows than DCA? It'd be just as "right" to give Crown a chance without BD in the way this year, right?? You've claimed that a 6 year winning streak by Bucs is lowering attendance. All right, Counsel....substantiate that claim like you would in Court. Back it up with facts, not heresay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Did DCI attendance suffer between 72 and 82, when "everyone knew" the title was going to California (except for 75)? Kinda doubt it. It took a corps that almost folded a few years before to FIGURE OUT HOW to beat BD and SCV...and it took other corps three years to figure how to beat Cadets (their 86 show not withstanding)...same for Cavies in their 3-peat. Did anyone suggest that BD or SCV should go exhibition to give someone else a chance? If that had happened in 84, I probably would've marched elsewhere (probably VK), simply because I'd be restricted fro the chance of winning in my only year of eligibility. BS, Lee...your proposal is pure BS, discriminatory, and hurtful to not only Bucs, but the activity as a whole...Sr, Jr., feeder, Alum, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Here, there has been no chance for a different outcome. If you think there is, you're kidding yourself. Again, this has been years we're talking about, not shows. The fans travel to DCA and every show the Bucs attend for the last few years knowing that the winner will be the Buccaneers and the victory concert is going to sound a lot like the Vanguard. Lee ~ There were tines this year that the Bucs looked beatable. I am not kidding myself. I was at shows where they weren't the perfect machine firing on every cylinder. Prelims was one of them Sorry if you missed it, but they were not perfection in motion that night. The people in the box I was sitting in commented on it as well. I think you are the one who is kidding himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankBeMe Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Now if it were Stealthmen winning every year and......well..let's just say if a proposal like this were adopted, it wouldn't be a good day for the known universe and numerous other dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Lee ~ There were tines this year that the Bucs looked beatable. I am not kidding myself. I was at shows where they weren't the perfect machine firing on every cylinder. Prelims was one of them Sorry if you missed it, but they were not perfection in motion that night. The people in the box I was sitting in commented on it as well. I think you are the one who is kidding himself. there have been a few times over the last 6 years it looked like Bucs may lose. hey remember 03? It was brigs all the way right? oops Cabs kinda ruined that. oj yeah 86...Cabs and Steel City...darn those Bushwackers. I'm sure I'm missing others. DCA has issues to deal with, as does DCI, but the amount of people not coming back in 2011 due to who wins probably pales against those not coming because because of cost, travel or bored with shows and how they are designed. I know of at least 20 people tired of Rochester. Just like I know people that got tired of Scranton. And Allentown. I know many PA people who haven't been to Rochester yet and wait for it to be closer....probably Bucs fans LOL maybe DCA needs to look at some creative marching, but your proposal tells a founding member to screw off. Now tell me, how is THAt good for DCA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankBeMe Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm sure I'm missing others. psst Jeff....1996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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