skewerz Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Well, as a matter of fact... " yes ". They're called NFL " Agents ". They negotiate the contracts for the NFL Draftees who pay them for this. But this seems unrelated from my central point above regarding the setting up of a slotting system that is based upon previous years performance placement, and advantages Corps in the new year to the detriment competitively, right from the outset, of the other Corps within the division for the new competitive season. Do you ( or anyone else here ) know of any other competitive sport(s) that automatically advantages a competitor(s ) in the new competitive season over other competitors based upon what they previously did in competition over a year or two ago ? I believe such an inherently flawed and unfair competitive system is unprecedented. Can we think of any others that do this ? actually, the NFL does...if you do crappy on year 1, your schedule is easier on year 2...(on statistics based on teams in year 1)..then again, this is kinda opposite of what the g8 is gonna do...the nfl helps those that don't do as well...the G8 ignores anyone not G8 completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 And if you read the rest of it, it's exactly what the DCI fans have said that they want. The Top 8 corps. No offense to the other 15, but they don't make the same ticket sales, the same attendance numbers, and i think the member corps and DCI realized this, and are trying out this new show concept, to max out the profits and attendance. Maybe if this works out, they'll expand it to the other 15 corps. I'm not sure, I don't see into the future, but if you do, the Super Bowl is coming up, and I'd really love to make some bets on it. No, not all DCI fans have said that. And that's the problem, DCI has never given the data to prove it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) corpsband asked where Plan9 got his information, Plan9 responded: The reality is that, as you can see, it is not "entirely competitive." It is actually "whatever the G7 corps want, via a vote." I provide slide 35 of the powerpoint for my citation, where it reads: Do you see this? This means they can move any corps to wherever the f### they feel like, for whatever reason they feel like. They ignore that when I mention it Edited January 24, 2011 by Jeff Ream 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 They're clustering the best corps to create interest and seek out new fan base. If a venue wants to fill the stands for a rock concert they get the draw groups. Doing this assures a better chance at attracting fans to their activity. If the venue in a specific town has a great drum corps event with top corps and it causes buzz, the next time a regular dc event occurs it just might mean a better result. At the very least it will spread out #### hot dc events like Murfeesborough to different locales throughout the country and everyone will eventually benefit. Thank heaven someone is trying to spread the best of dc around the country and prime the pump. The best are clustered, but show me where it's generating interest please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The US men's Olympic basketball team has won the gold medal over 76% of the time since 1936. I mean, seems pretty stale to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_Summer_Olympics That's right. That's why nobody watches this Olympic event except in a few places in the US and Croatia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I find it interesting that FSUBONE asked where in Drum Corps you come from so he knows what your motivation and perspective are for your commentary... In 3 pages of posts he got 2 answers to his questions. One from a Top 8 FMM and one from a guy who has never marched in a DCI corps. Both of those people are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how they feel about the G-7 proposal... Hmmmm so were someone to read into this... Maybe it goes something like this... If you have been there and done that, then you have perspective on WHAT IT TAKES TO BE GREAT AND STAY GREAT!!! If you have NEVER been there and never done that, perhaps you do not have the perspective to have an opinion that carries weight in terms of EXPERIENCE IN THIS END OF THE ACTIVITY... Incidentally THIS IS A COMPETETION BASED ACTIVITY MEANING THERE ARE WINNERS AND LOSERS!!! Sometimes losers get butt hurt and make up reasons/excuses why they loose, ("We worked just as hard as those guys did!" when in reality they never once saw a rehearsal of those that they claim to have worked as hard as) Slotting, New Rules, If only this and if only that... "Oh #### look at what they are doing now! They are cheating, setting things up for only themselves!" Well DUH!!! Remember the competetion base here folks? Is a top corps supposed to give up their status and hand over their staff, kids and ideas to another corps to "PROMOTE THE ACTIVITY" if this is what you suggest perhaps a head examinition would be in order! On the other hand those who have been there can be abraisive in how they communicate the ways of winning... To me it is a YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN THERE THING... I have been on all ends of the winning and loosing spectrum in both DCI and DCA and well... It feels better to win so those inclined to do so make things work out for themselves! (Through harder/smarter work and more determination than the other guy) There are 5%ers in DCI just like in the rest of the world! You know, where 5% of the people control 80% of the stuff... It is because there are not enough people out there who reach out and take what they believe should be theirs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I find it interesting that FSUBONE asked where in Drum Corps you come from so he knows what your motivation and perspective are for your commentary... In 3 pages of posts he got 2 answers to his questions. One from a Top 8 FMM and one from a guy who has never marched in a DCI corps. Both of those people are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how they feel about the G-7 proposal... Hmmmm so were someone to read into this... Maybe it goes something like this... If you have been there and done that, then you have perspective on WHAT IT TAKES TO BE GREAT AND STAY GREAT!!! If you have NEVER been there and never done that, perhaps you do not have the perspective to have an opinion that carries weight in terms of EXPERIENCE IN THIS END OF THE ACTIVITY... Incidentally THIS IS A COMPETETION BASED ACTIVITY MEANING THERE ARE WINNERS AND LOSERS!!! Sometimes losers get butt hurt and make up reasons/excuses why they loose, ("We worked just as hard as those guys did!" when in reality they never once saw a rehearsal of those that they claim to have worked as hard as) Slotting, New Rules, If only this and if only that... "Oh #### look at what they are doing now! They are cheating, setting things up for only themselves!" Well DUH!!! Remember the competetion base here folks? Is a top corps supposed to give up their status and hand over their staff, kids and ideas to another corps to "PROMOTE THE ACTIVITY" if this is what you suggest perhaps a head examinition would be in order! On the other hand those who have been there can be abraisive in how they communicate the ways of winning... To me it is a YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN THERE THING... I have been on all ends of the winning and loosing spectrum in both DCI and DCA and well... It feels better to win so those inclined to do so make things work out for themselves! (Through harder/smarter work and more determination than the other guy) There are 5%ers in DCI just like in the rest of the world! You know, where 5% of the people control 80% of the stuff... It is because there are not enough people out there who reach out and take what they believe should be theirs! There is no qualifier to have an opinion on any sports message board in America. Nobody asks you if you played or coached the sport at a high level. Some of the biggest " losers " with their predicted opinions and analysis were actually former players and Coaches...NONE of the so called TV baseball analyst " experts " ( former players and managers ) thought the Ssn Francisco Giants and the Texas Rangers were going to be the teams in last year's World Series.. and this was 1 month before the playoffs began. NONE of the TV football analysts ( former players and Coaches ) predicted the Jets would beat the NE Patriots or that Seattle would knock off the New Orleans Saints. NONE of the TV College Basketball analyst " experts " ( former Coaches Dick Vitale,DiggerPhelps, etc ) predicted Butler would be in the Final 8, let alone the Championship game. And so on and so forth. We don't need to know what Drum Corps experience a person has on DCP to determine if what they say has merit or not. Some of the dumbest people I know marched for years in Drum Corps. And some people who never marched and wouldn't know a paradiddle from a parimutuel, have made some interesting and compelling points re. the Drum Corps activity as they've tended to look at things from an unbiased position and through a fresh set of eyes and ears. Edited January 24, 2011 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) While reading over all the tired, rehashed, delusional, or - in the case of one poster - deranged arguments, I thought it might be cool if someone, you know, tried to answer the OP's question. I don't think the OP was a troll that posted and ran, but s/he does seem to have been scared off. So this may not help the OP, but maybe someone will find it useful. I'm sure I've made some mistakes so corrections and additions are welcome. I've tried to make this unbiased - mainly by linking to the relevant material, rather than describing it myself - so let me know if it seems unfair in any way. Way back in May, at a meeting of the DCI Board of Directors (which consists of 6 corps directors and three outside members, all selected by the 22 member corps of DCI) Cadets director George Hopkins made a proposal concerning something he called the G7 (Group of Seven) consisting of DCI's top 7 corps: Cavies, Crown, Bluecoats, Blue Devils, Phantom, and Cadets. The proposal has been summarized in this thread, but you can read the actual powerpoint here. It seems long, but it's really not, and if you want to understand the G7 you should read it. By all accounts the reaction to the proposal was ferocious. Couple of days later all 22 member corps held a conference call wherein those opposed to the G7 tried to restructure the board of directors by removing two of the G7 directors who were on the board, but in a show of solidarity all four G7 directors on the board resigned. The whole thing was apparently pretty acrimonious, as these things tend to be. Even so, the member corps decided that they would like to here more regarding the proposal in July. At the same time, rumors started surfacing in the community at large about a major split within DCI. There had been rumblings for some months ahead of time, but the first confirmation that something real was happening came when Drum Corps World announced that it was going to release an article on the G7. At this point speculation on DCP and elsewhere reached feverpitch. A few days after the conference call was completed DCW released the article, which can be read here. At the same time the G7 corps came out with a press release, which you can read here. It's worth noting that the Cavaliers also came out with a press release which indicated they may not have been 100% behind the G7 proposal. So battle lines were drawn. The DCI administration and the non-G7 corps were furious about the proposal. The G7 corps seem to have been stunned by the ferocity of the reaction, and were upset at how much of the affair had been made public. But the season began, the whole thing faded into the background. The July meeting came and went, but nothing apparently came of it. Another proposal (of sorts) was unearthed during that time, called "The World Series of Drum Corps", but I don't think it's ever been established who wrote it, and when. The season ended, the off-season began, and a few months passed. Tempers presumably cooled during this time. After the meeting in November DCI announced that it was planning a separate series of events on top of the traditional tour that sort of resembled the new competitions envisioned in Hopkins proposal. You can read the article here (scroll down to the bottom for the relevant information). This is what is now being called the "Tour of Champions". The relationship between the Tour of Champions and the G7 proposal is not really clear at this point. Most people seem to think that that the G7 proposal was some sort of negotiating tactic these corps used to get what they really wanted, the TOC. I used to think that, but I'm not so sure anymore. Hope this helps. I'm sure someone could come up with a more detailed and accurate timeline. This is serious and (for me, at least) fascinating issue, so it would be great if everyone could discuss without losing their heads. Except for those posters who lost their heads long before coming to this board. I didn't link to the original DCP threads on this, but a quick search can find them. Lots of interesting and well-thought out perspectives on both sides of issue can be found on those threads. There's plenty of crap, too, but no matter how much people b#### about this forum these threads are still 10x milder and more useful than most IRL conversations about the G7. Edit: Guess I should say that I was strongly opposed to the G7 proposal, but that I support the TOC (so long George Hopkins cornball vision for these events isn't followed). In response to fsubone's fair (and important) question, I was never in one these corps, and never came close. I'm simply not good enough. I did spend a good deal of time and money to help my sister get into one of these corps, and this corps is my new home corps since my old corps went extinct. She hasn't (yet) gotten a ring, but she knows about being near the top. I let her read some of the posts on this thread and she says she's happy her experience in an elite corps hasn't left her graceless and delusional. Edited January 24, 2011 by Rifuarian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 So... the answer to my question above from you is... " I don't know of any " ? It's irrelevant to the discussion. It remains that the only way to be the best in DCI or compete for the top 3 is to work at it by building your team and setting an environment of loyalty, creativity and precision. In DC you can't draft staff or MM's, you can only do your best to attract them and keep them. Wonder off into this NFL analogy if you want, but it gets us nowhere. That ain't gonna happen. TOC is good for the activity and I hope at the end of the 2011 season you are honest enough to admit its value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The best are clustered, but show me where it's generating interest please. Hasn't happened yet? Nothing to show only the good will of DCP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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